Silkied and bobtail cochin

[Tiger248]

I was looking into silkied cochins and couldnt find anything definitive on what colors they can be found in. I saw bbs, calico, and white. I absolutely adore the bobtail variety of cochin and was curious on if the silk gene was found in that variety. If not could it be introduced? Maybe through a white silkied cochin? I heard it is notoriously complicated how the genetics of the bobtail coloration work, so I dont even know if its doable.

 

[MysteryChicken]

I was looking into silkied cochins and couldnt find anything definitive on what colors they can be found in. I saw bbs, calico, and white. I absolutely adore the bobtail variety of cochin and was curious on if the silk gene was found in that variety. If not could it be introduced? Maybe through a white silkied cochin? I heard it is notoriously complicated how the genetics of the bobtail coloration work, so I dont even know if its doable.

Cochins also come in Red, Buff, Self Blue, Partridge, Silver Columbian, & Black Mottled. Some of these colors are rarer within the breed, but very common in others.

I can't answer your question about the origin of the Silkie Gene in Cochins, as it was spontaneous, & it hasn't been pinpointed to where it came from.

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

If I'm not mistaken, I think the OP was asking about colors that silkied Cochins come in, not just Cochin bantams in general? If that's the case, then you aren't going to find some of those varieties in silkied. Laced-type partridge like in Cochins is problematic to translate to a silkied variety, for example.

It seems like a lot of the silkied Cochins that are out there are 'party colored,' which is just a fun way of saying they're mixed colors. These types of pens are nice to hatch from because if you get the right bird with the right genetics then you've got a good starting point for working on a pure-breeding variety that might not exist yet in the silkied variety. But, they also come with the baggage of recessives and other tricky genes to breed out. With a lot of work, it can be done! I have heard of at least one person working on silkied Columbian, and I believe there was someone working on silkied Wheaten / Furness as well out of party-colored birds.

The pure-breeding varieties I'm aware of in silkied are mostly based on extended black: BBS, White, Barred, Chocolate, Mauve, and Mottled (in BBS and Chocolate). This is because one of the origin points of the silkieds was out of a breeder's strain of Blacks, making it fairly easy to breed in these varieties and have decently breeder-quality birds result. Self-Blue, for instance, wouldn't be hard to produce out of silkied Blacks if you chose to. It's fairly likely someone is already working on this, it's just not a variety I've personally seen talked about in silkieds.

There are some silkied Reds out there as well, but these originated from hatchery stock, so they aren't as typey as the extended black varieties tend to be and they need a lot of work still. From the Reds, some are working on silkied Calico and Mille Fleur. I started with silkied Reds, but did not have much luck improving them or finding better stock to work with, so I ended up retiring my Reds and switching to BBS for now.

Bobtail is tricky. If I remember right it's related to recessive white, but is based on eb, which very few other varieties of Cochin use. My understanding is that it's genetically Brown (as in the Cochin variety) with that recessive-white-relative gene causing a mostly-whitened bird with some of the underlying Brown patterning leaking through. Unfortunately, Brown Cochins are exceptionally rare at this point. I think I've heard of a few breeders working on them in large fowl still, but bantams are all but gone as far as I'm aware. Cerainly not a variety available in silkied at this point, but one you could possibly find some similar-enough genetics from a party-color silkied pen to work with. Whites could also work, but you don't know what they might be carrying underneath their recessive white exterior that might hinder your progress on the Bobtails. Yeah, long story short, it would be tricky and require a lot of work to get Bobtails silkied!

I had actually considered trying to work on silkied Bobtails at one point, but with the complexity in the variety and everything I have on my plate at the moment, I had to shelve the idea for now. It's definitely in my mind for a possible future project, though! If nothing else, I just find Bobtails pretty and it would give me an excuse to set up a pen of them.

I've been incredibly busy with life in general lately, but if you have any other questions about silkied Cochins, feel free to reach out and I'll answer with what I know as soon as I'm able!

 

[Tiger248]

If I'm not mistaken, I think the OP was asking about colors that silkied Cochins come in, not just Cochin bantams in general? If that's the case, then you aren't going to find some of those varieties in silkied. Laced-type partridge like in Cochins is problematic to translate to a silkied variety, for example.

It seems like a lot of the silkied Cochins that are out there are 'party colored,' which is just a fun way of saying they're mixed colors. These types of pens are nice to hatch from because if you get the right bird with the right genetics then you've got a good starting point for working on a pure-breeding variety that might not exist yet in the silkied variety. But, they also come with the baggage of recessives and other tricky genes to breed out. With a lot of work, it can be done! I have heard of at least one person working on silkied Columbian, and I believe there was someone working on silkied Wheaten / Furness as well out of party-colored birds.

The pure-breeding varieties I'm aware of in silkied are mostly based on extended black: BBS, White, Barred, Chocolate, Mauve, and Mottled (in BBS and Chocolate). This is because one of the origin points of the silkieds was out of a breeder's strain of Blacks, making it fairly easy to breed in these varieties and have decently breeder-quality birds result. Self-Blue, for instance, wouldn't be hard to produce out of silkied Blacks if you chose to. It's fairly likely someone is already working on this, it's just not a variety I've personally seen talked about in silkieds.

There are some silkied Reds out there as well, but these originated from hatchery stock, so they aren't as typey as the extended black varieties tend to be and they need a lot of work still. From the Reds, some are working on silkied Calico and Mille Fleur. I started with silkied Reds, but did not have much luck improving them or finding better stock to work with, so I ended up retiring my Reds and switching to BBS for now.

Bobtail is tricky. If I remember right it's related to recessive white, but is based on eb, which very few other varieties of Cochin use. My understanding is that it's genetically Brown (as in the Cochin variety) with that recessive-white-relative gene causing a mostly-whitened bird with some of the underlying Brown patterning leaking through. Unfortunately, Brown Cochins are exceptionally rare at this point. I think I've heard of a few breeders working on them in large fowl still, but bantams are all but gone as far as I'm aware. Cerainly not a variety available in silkied at this point, but one you could possibly find some similar-enough genetics from a party-color silkied pen to work with. Whites could also work, but you don't know what they might be carrying underneath their recessive white exterior that might hinder your progress on the Bobtails. Yeah, long story short, it would be tricky and require a lot of work to get Bobtails silkied!

I had actually considered trying to work on silkied Bobtails at one point, but with the complexity in the variety and everything I have on my plate at the moment, I had to shelve the idea for now. It's definitely in my mind for a possible future project, though! If nothing else, I just find Bobtails pretty and it would give me an excuse to set up a pen of them.

I've been incredibly busy with life in general lately, but if you have any other questions about silkied Cochins, feel free to reach out and I'll answer with what I know as soon as I'm able!

Thank you so much! That was exactly what I was asking and I should've specified better. I love the bobtail and silkied cochins and thiught it would be amazing to have a silkied bobtail or start on a project working toward them. I've been unable to find any white silkied cochin hatching eggs, so it will have to be in the future if I ever do manage to work on the project.

If you start this project I would love to see the progress you make! Thank you for all the helpful info!

 

[pipdzipdnreadytogo]

I had to go double-check, but I'm pretty sure the 2 farms on my radar that I knew had silkied Whites have sold them off in lieu of other varieties or breeds. The one silkied White hen I've had actually came out of BBS hatching eggs, so the gene is floating around out there still. The extended black varieties with the best yellow in their legs are said to be split to recessive white because even as a split the gene impacts deposition of melanin in the shanks and leaves them brighter. You might end up with some Whites if you get other varieties, in other words!

Best of luck on your project if you do get started! Likewise, I'd be interested in following along with your progress if you do! More than likely, any project with my silkieds I'll post about in my thread for them over here: https://www.backyardchickens.com/threads/breeding-silkied-cochin-bantams-to-the-standard.1555327/ BUT, that said, I returned to college a couple years ago, so it'll probably have to wait until after I graduate (class of 2028) before I'd brave taking on a project like that!