Silver Laced Barnevelder Chicks/Hatching Eggs?

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by ndemerly, Nov 1, 2010.

  1. mountainvieworchards

    mountainvieworchards Chillin' With My Peeps

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    The female on the right I can see has silver in her hackles. So I am assuming she is a silver blue. If they were my birds, I would be breeding them back to my best double laced (DL) Barnevelders.
    This should improve the lacing lacing, type and egg properties, essentially making them more and more Barnevelder. With each back breeding, select the best and breed them back to DL Barnevelders until you have nice double lacing, type and eggs. Then I would breed my best silver split male with my best silver females. This is the approach I am using. I am going to do the silver split male x silver female cross this year because I want to make some pure silver roosters. I will also keep breeding back to DL Barnies to continually improve birds and to enlarge my gene pool.

    I have noticed there is a lot more red bleeding through in my silver-blue DL compared to my silver DL pullets. There is a fair amount in yours as well. I still like the pattern of the silver blues.

    Andy
     
  2. Sterkfarm

    Sterkfarm Out Of The Brooder

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    Can you explain the silver/silver split? Where is that coming from?
     
  3. mountainvieworchards

    mountainvieworchards Chillin' With My Peeps

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    The silver genetics are sex linked, meaning its tied to the sex chromosome and the silver split is a male with both one copy of the silver and one copy of the gold in his genotype (so he is shown symbolically as S/s+, where cap S is silver and lower case s+ is gold). The female silver has only one copy of this so they are either silver S/ or gold s+/. To keep the silver you need to keep this in mind.

    If you breed a gold double laced barnevelder rooster (s+/s+) with a silver DL hen (S/)you will get all gold DL females (s+/) and your males will all be silver splits (S/s+)

    If you breed a silver split DL barnevelder rooster (S/s+) with a gold DL hen (s+/) you will get a mix of silver and gold females about 50:50, (either gold (s+/) or silver (S/) and a mix of gold DL males (s+/s+) and Silver Split males (S/s+) again about 50:50.

    If you breed a pure silver S/S rooster to a gold DL hen ((s+/) you will get all silver females, and your males will all be splits (S/s+).

    Finally is you breed pure silver SS rooster (S/S) to pure silver females (S/) you will get all silvers.

    Notice the males have two copies and the females one in each case, so the females are either pure gold or pure silver, where as the males can be pure gold(s+/s+), pure silver (S/S) or silver splits (S/s+).

    The male splits have sex linked gold or red color bleed through into the silver whereas the pure silvers do not have sex linked gold or red bleed through. There are however other genes that produce red and these are often called autosomal red meaning the are not sex-linked and this is the red that we see in the pure silver hens and in both the splits and pure silver roosters.

    If you are doing blues as well, then the normal black-blue-splash genetics runs on top of this and independently of the sex.

    I am not a geneticist and this is my layman explanation as I learned it from others.

    This back of the napkin description will point you in the right direction and if you breed large numbers of birds the numbers come out. If you only breed small populations it can look like a lot more or a lot less than 50:50, where that is the expected outcome.

    If you look up sex linked genes this will make more sense.

    Andy
     
  4. Sterkfarm

    Sterkfarm Out Of The Brooder

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    Thanks Andy, I totally understand that, and thank you; you have described it Very well and in laymans terms. What I am unsure of a) where the silver initially came from in F1 (I assume silver pencilled, etc), and also how a blue and red bird has a smattering of silver in there. I get the red leakage; but how did these feathers get silver in them if only blue bred to standard DL birds? What you're referencing above is still light years ahead of me in the project chain. I haven't any silver laced anything to perfect. I'm basically at F1 with a blue foundation bird rather than a traditional DL. I feel like I've solved a long equation in high school, and I have the correct answer; but without seeing and completely understanding every step at a time, I've gotten in over my head. Math was never my strong suit :(
    Maybe I should just stick to my chocolate projects. LOL. easy. It's either chocolate or it's not.
    Also I have no intention of continuing with the blues. That's someone else's line up here and I'm having enough trouble with the silver!! I might consider chocolate silver laced though...
    On top of that, pencilled rocks are just about impossible to find in Canada. I would do anything to get my hands on some!! I might have to try with the brahmas after all. I mean above it sounds like I have generations and generations of crosses to get the feathering right. So feathered legs/combs don't terrify me as much as the prospect of tracking down a good PR. Sorry to be such a pain and dud student.

    Ps my choc is sexlinked. So that's helpful to me understanding the silver bit.
     
    Last edited: Oct 8, 2013
  5. Piet

    Piet Chillin' With My Peeps

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    how did you start the project, with what other breed and variety?
     
  6. mountainvieworchards

    mountainvieworchards Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I will be happy to tell you if you pledge to be constructive and not bash the project.

    Andy
     
  7. Piet

    Piet Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Why would I bash it? Maybe I would give you pointers. You guys are very sensitive I learned that in my short 10 years here,
    I should be less forward and add more smooch to each sentence maybe, yet I still get taken as a rude European, lol.
    We can do this over email on phone if you want, that way it stays private and I do not have to write stuff down for every one else to read. I am a slow typer anyway.
    Piet
     
  8. Wynette

    Wynette Moderator Staff Member

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    Really, there's no need to "smooch it up" - it's just fine to have an opinion, and most excellent to offer feedback. What I'd hope not to see is, "Why on earth would you use THAT breed? What are you, some sort of moron??" Rather, "Interesting decision to use a XXX in your project; you may end up with shank color issues, but I get where you're going with that."

    [sorry, not trying to butt in, I just happened across this thread while searching for something...]
     
  9. BantamCastle

    BantamCastle Out Of The Brooder

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    Since this thread was started to locate silver barnevelder hatching eggs, I thought I'd mention that I've listed eggs from by silver barnevelder bantam project on ebay. -Al
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    1 person likes this.
  10. Eissens

    Eissens Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Dutch Large Silver Double Laced Barnevelder hen, a new creation in the Netherlands
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    Bantam Silver Double laced rooster, winner of his class at the Noordshow 2014
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    Bantam Silver Double laced pullet, winner of her class at the Noordshow 2014
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