Silverrudds x Bielefelder and Legbar.. what color should chicks be?

[TheWannabeFarmer]

I have a blue Silverudds isbar rooster over cream legbar and bielefelder hens. I thought this would result in blue or black chicks that are sex linked, but some are coming out very similar in color to the hen color..

Is this a possibility??

I will add photos of the chicks in question

 

[NatJ]

I have a blue Silverudds isbar rooster over cream legbar and bielefelder hens. I thought this would result in blue or black chicks that are sex linked, but some are coming out very similar in color to the hen color..

What you expected is what I would also expect.

Is this a possibility??

Since the chicks do exist, there are only so many options:
--either the father is not actually that rooster
--or you are correct about the father, but he has some genes aren't what you expected

I will add photos of the chicks in question

Photos are always fun to see, and often help with sorting out things like this.
Photos of the parents might be nice as well, especially the father.

 

[TheWannabeFarmer]

Here are the babies. The lighter ones are all the questionable ones. I will get photos of the adults.

 

[NatJ]

Here are the babies. The lighter ones are all the questionable ones. I will get photos of the adults.


View attachment 3859162

That looks like approximately a 50/50 split of ones with Extended Black and ones with some other gene.

If all the mothers are Cream Legbar and Bielefelder, I see two possible explanations:
1, the black chicks have the Isbar father and the other chicks have a different father

2, the Isbar father, who is expected to have two genes for Extended Black (E), actually has only E gene and one gene for something else. The "something else" may match what the Legbar and Bielefelder hens have, or it may not, but it certainly does allow the striped pattern to show nicely.

I'll look forward to seeing the pictures of the adults when you have them.

 

[TheWannabeFarmer]

Here is the rooster.. I feel like the slight markings on his chest may be the culprit..

 

[NatJ]

Here is the rooster.. I feel like the slight markings on his chest may be the culprit..

It's not just the chest. He's got a lot of areas in his hackles and saddle feathers that are not blue either.

If his coloring is typical for the breed, rather than being blue all over like Andalusians are, then other genes may be common in the breed.

I think you are probably right that he is the father of all the chicks, and that means he's carrying one gene that is not expected (rather than having two Extended Black genes like you & I both assumed at first.)

 

[TheWannabeFarmer]

It is interesting thats for sure. I am unsure if he is a standard color for the breed, but he came from a reputable breeder so who knows. All I know is he won't work for my sex-link crosses LOL. Thanks for your help.

 

[NatJ]

It is interesting thats for sure. I am unsure if he is a standard color for the breed, but he came from a reputable breeder so who knows. All I know is he won't work for my sex-link crosses LOL. Thanks for your help.

The other colored chicks should still have white barring in the males and not in the females, the trick is just going to be recognizing it at a young enough age to be useful.

You could try identifying individual chicks (maybe with colored zipties for legbands), and taking several pictures of each one (top-down, from the side, spread-out wing feathers). Then when you can tell which ones are males vs. females, look back at the chick photos to see if you can spot differences that correlate properly with which ones are males vs. females.

As I look at the striped chicks in the photo, I see that some have a light area inside the dark head stripe, and others do not. Some have high-contrast stripes on their back and others have more muted stripes. I cannot be sure if the barring gene is causing any of these differences or not, but there might be enough non-black chicks in this batch to tell whether any such differences work or not. It's definitely easier to check when you have this many chicks, rather than just one or two.

 

[TheWannabeFarmer]

The other colored chicks should still have white barring in the males and not in the females, the trick is just going to be recognizing it at a young enough age to be useful.

You could try identifying individual chicks (maybe with colored zipties for legbands), and taking several pictures of each one (top-down, from the side, spread-out wing feathers). Then when you can tell which ones are males vs. females, look back at the chick photos to see if you can spot differences that correlate properly with which ones are males vs. females.

As I look at the striped chicks in the photo, I see that some have a light area inside the dark head stripe, and others do not. Some have high-contrast stripes on their back and others have more muted stripes. I cannot be sure if the barring gene is causing any of these differences or not, but there might be enough non-black chicks in this batch to tell whether any such differences work or not. It's definitely easier to check when you have this many chicks, rather than just one or two.

Yes, the black chicks are showing some with white dots and some without. Is the barring gene the only one that affects that? If so, then I can definitely tell between those at least. I will probably just sell the lighter colored ones as straight run, or keep them to see what happens with their colors as they age.

Thanks for your input, it's very helpful!

 

[NatJ]

Yes, the black chicks are showing some with white dots and some without. Is the barring gene the only one that affects that?

On the black chicks, yes the barring gene should be the only thing affecting whether they have white dots on top of their heads (white dot male, no dot female.)

If so, then I can definitely tell between those at least. I will probably just sell the lighter colored ones as straight run, or keep them to see what happens with their colors as they age.

Yes, you should be able to sex the black ones. For the lighter ones, it MAY be possible to sex them too, if you can identify which differences are caused by the barring gene (vs. normal individual variation), but otherwise yes you could just treat them as normal straight run chicks, unsexable until they get a little older.

If you keep them to watch as they grow, I'd love to see updated pictures over time!