Simulated Natural Nest Incubation~Experiment #1 So it begins....

[aussie pete]

thanks for the vote of confidence Cowpoke , but i'm not as good a communicator as Bee.
i still consider myself on "L " plates(beginner/ learner)

the best i could offer is just the pitfalls i have encounted but no real titbits of information to help u going forward.

I joined BYC because i needed to learn ,there r a lots of very experienced breeders & flock managers here,very willing to pass on their knowledge & experience

the situation in aust in a bit strange ,(to me) ,lots of backyarders that just want chooks for eggs, and experienced breeders with a huge gap in between .

the experienced breeders complain there r not many serious breeders about & a sml gene pool, but r reluctant to share any knowledge or stock until they deem someone has enough experience & wherewithal to be granted access to birds or knowledge

while i can understand their reasoning to a point,how can u complain about a diminishing gene pool of good stock if u only sell yr culls .

can u really complain about not enough serious breeders if u only sell good stock to yr peers & don't impart yr knowledge to others that want to learn, or sell the occasional good stock for a high price with no knowledge on how to continue on.

as an example

recently I attended a local poultry club open day ,with the intention of seeing if they provided some sort of education program.
very disappointed ,had various breeds on display with description cards from "Google",very poor examples on display, some had scaly leg mites,dirty ,undersize, birds with wrong eye colour for breed.
a sml demonstration on how to wash a bird,giving out,free membership application forms.

no breeders to talk to , just ppl selling food or encouraging u to join .but couldn't answer any question about activities referred me to club president who wasn't in attendance.
seems their only objective was just increase club membership but offered little in the way of benefits to the joining member other than the ability to enter their annual show .
the list of calendar events they gave me ,had only their annual show & twice yrly sale dates

aust poultry forums r similar ,experienced breeders may answer a specific problem but impart no flock management advice to educate learners

i just go to BYC for my education,& offer any advice i can from my limited knowledge to help others avoid yhe mistakes i have encountered


Pete

 

[pogmobum]

I hope someone here can help you on that and I'm sure they can...lots of experienced hatchers on this thread helping me out.  To me, near the end, it all just looks sort of...dark. 

Thanks im hoping to see that aswell, i just candled once on one egg on day ten as i dont like to mess with my broodys to much but im starting to think i just happened to candle the only good egg :/

 

[fisherlady]

I hope someone here can help you on that and I'm sure they can...lots of experienced hatchers on this thread helping me out. To me, near the end, it all just looks sort of...dark.

That is me also Bee... and my candling is usually done in the coop under the not so greatest conditions, but my only goal is to pull sloshy or clear eggs, if it has a solid air cell I put it back in the nest.

thanks for the vote of confidence Cowpoke , but i'm not as good a communicator as Bee.
i still consider myself on "L " plates(beginner/ learner)

the best i could offer is just the pitfalls i have encounted but no real titbits of information to help u going forward.

I joined BYC because i needed to learn ,there r a lots of very experienced breeders & flock managers here,very willing to pass on their knowledge & experience

the situation in aust in a bit strange ,(to me) ,lots of backyarders that just want chooks for eggs, and experienced breeders with a huge gap in between .

the experienced breeders complain there r not many serious breeders about & a sml gene pool, but r reluctant to share any knowledge or stock until they deem someone has enough experience & wherewithal to be granted access to birds or knowledge

while i can understand their reasoning to a point,how can u complain about a diminishing gene pool of good stock if u only sell yr culls .

can u really complain about not enough serious breeders if u only sell good stock to yr peers & don't impart yr knowledge to others that want to learn, or sell the occasional good stock for a high price with no knowledge on how to continue on.

as an example

recently I attended a local poultry club open day ,with the intention of seeing if they provided some sort of education program.
very disappointed ,had various breeds on display with description cards from "Google",very poor examples on display, some had scaly leg mites,dirty ,undersize, birds with wrong eye colour for breed.
a sml demonstration on how to wash a bird,giving out,free membership application forms.

no breeders to talk to , just ppl selling food or encouraging u to join .but couldn't answer any question about activities referred me to club president who wasn't in attendance.
seems their only objective was just increase club membership but offered little in the way of benefits to the joining member other than the ability to enter their annual show .
the list of calendar events they gave me ,had only their annual show & twice yrly sale dates

aust poultry forums r similar ,experienced breeders may answer a specific problem but impart no flock management advice to educate learners

i just go to BYC for my education,& offer any advice i can from my limited knowledge to help others avoid yhe mistakes i have encountered


Pete

I messaged a couple of folks on here who raise heritage cornish and one sent a very snooty response about how 'real breeders would never sell hatching eggs, they only sell breeding trios'. At that point I was pretty disgusted when considering that the heritage breeds were developed to be hardy and efficient back yard animals, and for a breeder to look down on someone who was interested in back yard animals (and hatching via broody) was not encouraging to say the least.

Since then I have decided I will work with people who still remember what the breeds were intended to be to begin with and who are willing to sell hatching eggs. I am slowly working on getting the breeds I have wanted. Once I have a handful of each 'on the ground' so to speak I will decide which I would like to place into breeding pens based on the 'breed standard' guides my plus my own grading scales for eggs, hardiness and broodiness ...I don't care how gorgeous a bird is, if it can't breed naturally, lay eggs or raise some babies the breed wouldn't be self sustaining for very long, would it?

Your birds are already beautiful though! I imagine it has been even more difficult for you if the breeders are farther apart than they are here in the states... hopefully you will find a network person to help you find good stock to work with... one of the best sources of information and breeder sources I found was a fellow who is actually a judge at shows. He talks to the breeders and sees their stock and after telling him what I wanted for my flock he was able to put me in contact with a couple of good sources to get me started.
Find a pamphlet or show guide from one of the bigger shows around you and check to see who the judges are... see if you can get a chance to meet or chat with one of them and pick their brain a bit.

 

[Beekissed]

thanks for the vote of confidence Cowpoke , but i'm not as good a communicator as Bee.
i still consider myself on "L " plates(beginner/ learner)

the best i could offer is just the pitfalls i have encounted but no real titbits of information to help u going forward.

I joined BYC because i needed to learn ,there r a lots of very experienced breeders & flock managers here,very willing to pass on their knowledge & experience

the situation in aust in a bit strange ,(to me) ,lots of backyarders that just want chooks for eggs, and experienced breeders with a huge gap in between .

the experienced breeders complain there r not many serious breeders about & a sml gene pool, but r reluctant to share any knowledge or stock until they deem someone has enough experience & wherewithal to be granted access to birds or knowledge

while i can understand their reasoning to a point,how can u complain about a diminishing gene pool of good stock if u only sell yr culls .

can u really complain about not enough serious breeders if u only sell good stock to yr peers & don't impart yr knowledge to others that want to learn, or sell the occasional good stock for a high price with no knowledge on how to continue on.

as an example

recently I attended a local poultry club open day ,with the intention of seeing if they provided some sort of education program.
very disappointed ,had various breeds on display with description cards from "Google",very poor examples on display, some had scaly leg mites,dirty ,undersize, birds with wrong eye colour for breed.
a sml demonstration on how to wash a bird,giving out,free membership application forms.

no breeders to talk to , just ppl selling food or encouraging u to join .but couldn't answer any question about activities referred me to club president who wasn't in attendance.
seems their only objective was just increase club membership but offered little in the way of benefits to the joining member other than the ability to enter their annual show .
the list of calendar events they gave me ,had only their annual show & twice yrly sale dates

aust poultry forums r similar ,experienced breeders may answer a specific problem but impart no flock management advice to educate learners

i just go to BYC for my education,& offer any advice i can from my limited knowledge to help others avoid yhe mistakes i have encountered


Pete

Wow, Pete!

I thought there would be scads of poultry people in Australia and lots of breeders and fanciers...one of the best breeds out there originated in your country. Is Australia more about the sheep and cattle than poultry?

I feel for you....here in my state it's a poultry wasteland. No serious breeders of any breed that I'm aware of....just pet flocks, chick mills, food flocks and a few farmers that still even have chickens. I've never seen any clubs, websites or publications anywhere in my state that would indicate that anyone is doing any poultry breeding or developing certain breeds. The main livestock publication in my state rarely even has poultry listed and if it has, there are only a few ads and they are usually guinea fowl. Nothing on CL, nothing in any magazines....I think there is a FB page on chickens for this state but they are all pet/silkie type folks.

No wonder you found your way here and I'm so glad you did....you've got great knowledge and a succinct way of telling it that I admire.

 

[aussie pete]

Pete, you know my style...I've only ever done flock breeding and I'd like to do that for awhile first to see what happens and see if I can pick out individual hens that are worthy of breeding pens. What do you think about just flock breeding to improve a flock/breed for a bit before getting into the serious stuff? It kind of suits my more natural, loosy goosey style and wondered if you thought it has any merit or is it a waste of time?

I doubt I'll start a new thread on it unless it's just about flock breeding. I'm going to do some reading up and research on the efficacy of that kind of breeding program and if it can be done to improve a line or only just to improve a flock.

that's what i do ,just flock breed.
i run 2 flocks, one australorp & one light Sussex separated x a good fence .even so have a a couple of accidental eggs hatch, that show my australorp roo has hopped the fence to the light Sussex

a bit confused as what u r asking

depends on yr objectives, r u going to let the trio run with the flock to infuse the current flock with WR blood to improve the rest of the flock going forward OR
r u going to just bred the trio to get a flock of WR's separate to yr egg layers
if u intention is the later
given yr environment , one coop & free range flock ,i would think u would have to have a separate coop for the trio (so the purebreds lay in there) & don't have any other roos in yr layer flock.
otherwise u would have a hard time telling purebred eggs from the others regardless of any differences in egg colour etc .

if yr intention is to improve the current flock with WR blood it would take a lot of work& generations of chicks to get other chooks up to the level of the WR's

Pete

 

[Beekissed]

That is me also Bee... and my candling is usually done in the coop under the not so greatest conditions, but my only goal is to pull sloshy or clear eggs, if it has a solid air cell I put it back in the nest.
I messaged a couple of folks on here who raise heritage cornish and one sent a very snooty response about how 'real breeders would never sell hatching eggs, they only sell breeding trios'. At that point I was pretty disgusted when considering that the heritage breeds were developed to be hardy and efficient back yard animals, and for a breeder to look down on someone who was interested in back yard animals (and hatching via broody) was not encouraging to say the least.

Since then I have decided I will work with people who still remember what the breeds were intended to be to begin with and who are willing to sell hatching eggs. I am slowly working on getting the breeds I have wanted. Once I have a handful of each 'on the ground' so to speak I will decide which I would like to place into breeding pens based on the 'breed standard' guides my plus my own grading scales for eggs, hardiness and broodiness ...I don't care how gorgeous a bird is, if it can't breed naturally, lay eggs or raise some babies the breed wouldn't be self sustaining for very long, would it?

Your birds are already beautiful though! I imagine it has been even more difficult for you if the breeders are farther apart than they are here in the states... hopefully you will find a network person to help you find good stock to work with... one of the best sources of information and breeder sources I found was a fellow who is actually a judge at shows. He talks to the breeders and sees their stock and after telling him what I wanted for my flock he was able to put me in contact with a couple of good sources to get me started.
Find a pamphlet or show guide from one of the bigger shows around you and check to see who the judges are... see if you can get a chance to meet or chat with one of them and pick their brain a bit.

Amen! That's what I think also. Fortunately there are a few guys on BYC here that feel the same way and are very nice about guiding folks into heritage stock....I can always depend on them for good advice and helpfulness in that effort. I like it that they don't look down on me just because I'm a woman and still think I can do some good at breeding if I wanted to.

 

[Beekissed]

that's what i do ,just flock breed.
i run 2 flocks, one australorp & one light Sussex separated x a good fence .even so have a a couple of accidental eggs hatch, that show my australorp roo has hopped the fence to the light Sussex

a bit confused as what u r asking

depends on yr objectives, r u going to let the trio run with the flock to infuse the current flock with WR blood to improve the rest of the flock going forward OR
r u going to just bred the trio to get a flock of WR's separate to yr egg layers
if u intention is the later
given yr environment , one coop & free range flock ,i would think u would have to have a separate coop for the trio (so the purebreds lay in there) & don't have any other roos in yr layer flock.
otherwise u would have a hard time telling purebred eggs from the others regardless of any differences in egg colour etc .

if yr intention is to improve the current flock with WR blood it would take a lot of work& generations of chicks to get other chooks up to the level of the WR's

Pete

No...I was sort of thinking of running all the birds together, only having the WR cock and letting him breed over all birds, hatch out the WR eggs only with any broody or in my nest box and just keep the best and eat the rest. Slowly but surely, when I get enough WR hens, I'd just eat all my other layers and have a WR flock only, keeping the best cocks and only keeping two roosters at a time over the flock.

 

[ocap]

I messaged a couple of folks on here who raise heritage cornish and one sent a very snooty response about how 'real breeders would never sell hatching eggs, they only sell breeding trios'. At that point I was pretty disgusted when considering that the heritage breeds were developed to be hardy and efficient back yard animals, and for a breeder to look down on someone who was interested in back yard animals (and hatching via broody) was not encouraging to say the least.

I took a course in college (45+ years ago) called "economic decision making". If you take the problem of eggs vs trio and ran a cost to 100 hatched chicks in your barn.......I would like to know the answer, I read about a lot of failures on the incubator threads, you have tons of broody experience that should change the failure rate of shipped eggs. I would try and take the snooty response
emotion out of the thought process and make the entire decision an economic one.

John

 

[aussie pete]

don't get me wrong ,there r many good breeders of lots of breeds here in aust.
,most breeds have very good clubs ,such as the australorp breed club, with list of breeders, u can access once u r a member

as "fisherlady" says very few serious experienced breeders will rarely sell hatching eggs, if they do they r expensive ( $8 to $10 an egg)plus shipping .with a hatch rate of only up to 50% for shipped eggs

they prefer to sell trios ,but usually they r ,pick up only ,after u have become known to them & they deem u good enough to have their blood line'.
i did buy a dz eggs from a serious breeder once for $100 plus shipping had only one hatch( a roo )a nice bird but not any better than i had bred myself
most advertized fertile egg sales, r from backyard breeders who have very inflated ideas on the worth of their birds or admit they r only backyard quality to be used for egg laying only
we have only a handful of hatcheries here that sell to the public ,which r around major capitals .a bit like r hatcheries, may the rite colour for the breed but no quality.

the only way i have progressed is buying the best of good breeders culls from auction i could find, an line bred them myself
.
Pete

 

[aussie pete]

No...I was sort of thinking of running all the birds together, only having the WR cock and letting him breed over all birds, hatch out the WR eggs only with any broody or in my nest box and just keep the best and eat the rest. Slowly but surely, when I get enough WR hens, I'd just eat all my other layers and have a WR flock only, keeping the best cocks and only keeping two roosters at a time over the flock.

given that's yr intention my suggestion would be run them all together & just put the trio in a breeding pen each spring ,gather sufficient number of WR eggs to hatch .

2 hens = 2 eggs a day x 12 days = 2 dz to hatch ,

that's how i think Fred does it

Pete