sizzle, frizzle, and frazzle???

[Glenda Heywoodo]

Glenda Heywood
Frizzled Brahama bantam

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203702126094927&set=basw.Abq9cj9Lvwzgt9mDHU85qwmoh1ofttkcf8nXT9N7JOH9tvLRo5oaRCeohpitLsgFHT94p-UkWOP7zPCnvmDrO54YulIhgtBOyclw1N51xeR9bBqdCmacMXFgwIHFML0I7JMuCvJC462nF46OAV7iRpFFsDNOF7DOS4tqXnsFm1fvpA.923882320993872.366611600089509.1652246221711751.519835418081788.158683664293085.1557363911199983.804926352869019.10203702126094927.556435451071488&type=1&opaqueCursor=Abpt8rJ68-M83pZzgtdM7spZNHI8ElHG5X-7y_oTkDnPaP4V94CqEmMe7w2GLP2XknoDUFwCMRezNo3ScF6k_tbFolavDfHrNPhec7pODbPZzTSCYq9jfM1zY9HXdRbh8TF_alxwwleXJZwIBSurzotbPHeAEgW61oHIDB8FQFdghzea89KwsdrW-AqJUOZDRrk7FzikW_eC7SZeuN4KlPUduFKf_uQyU3R83wbrXfgbjK6S9cnCeH1Voatzzf-mSe3Kk-L8cTxFXnAmqNe2Nl7LZrmG9uWCpb8ku8c_XpCxcQscINFTS-UL9e5ZEwlforzmt16sV-pd1G9O6CBITYyrhc_seXL7NIpLdBAcIdcgHGL3hDH9_AJpY2uxVHyZx-KlsKILHK89NvctwpmZYOa3M6swZ8XgtcfMCdl9xsy4e0MaBeCQJVJ23NRivzxpjCxbkLS3ctHOaptxoZdzdP-O



Mick Hinkley‎The egg exchange uk

April 10, 2014 ·



Brahma eggs. From my stunning Frizzle boy Blue Partridge and his mix of Exhibition girls 2 Gold, 1 Buff Columbian.1 Orange shouldered blue. £1.50 per egg, £15.0 a dozen. Ideally collection from Chatham Kent . Can post at cost.
RDJ0RAyJNRdYZdIlJoqxnw&theater

 

[silkiegoldfish]

If your bird is not displaying the frizzled feathers, then by all means breed it to a frizzled bird.  The only time there is a problem is if you breed frizzle to frizzle.  Sizzles as they are being developed come in both smooth and frizzled feathers.  Sizzles birds should have regular barbed feathers, not silkie feathers but other than that the should look like a silkie. 


This is a photo of my Homozygous Sizzle (Frazzle or Curley)  He is the product of a Frizzled Sizzle to a Frizzled Sizzle.  This was an experiment out of necessity.  I did not have a place for my single Sizzle hen. 

So far he has not shown any sign of feather breakage the only difference is the feathers do seem like they are over permed.  The width of each feather is much narrower than normal feathers a s well.  This boy is 4 months old


Keep in mind that Sizzle is a breed in the process of being developed.  Not all birds are Frizzled.  It is necessary to keep the smooth birds from any frizzle breeding program weather Sizzle or Cochin or whatever.  You need the smooth birds to breed back to the frizzled ones.

I was wanting to know how your bird is doing? A friend had an accidental breeding and was concerned for the chicks

 

[fattie911]

They are so cute.

 

[Nikite02]

Breeding question...If I have a chick that is a cross between a silkie and frizzle(techniquely a "sizzle") but looks like a silkie...can I breed it with a frizzle or would that be trouble because of double frizzle genes? Would it be safer to breed it back to a silkie b/c it is carrying the frizzle genes(even though hey are obviously recessive)? Just wondering how this works. I've heard that once you produce a sizzle the best ideal thing is to breed it back to a silkie to better the body type. But just wondering what is best to do with the no-sizzle showing chicks? WOW..that's confusing to ask!

Blessings, Keri

I wondered the same thing, Keri.

 

[Glenda Heywoodo]

Glenda Heywood
here is an article on breeding frizzles
as that is what you all are doing with the silkie frizzle

GLENDA HEYWOOD
IE: I used frizzle male on smooth females as I could tell the length in back of the male as a short cobby male makes for correct back on females.
IE: Now days there are better smooth males around and breeders are using smooth males to frizzled females.
.and the frizzling of the correct bird needs to be a wide feather with the frizzle in it towards the head of the bird.
extreme frizzles throw a feather quality that is too brittle and does not hold a good wide curled feather.
always use the regular feather if no smooths are available in the original breeding.
then in F-2 use only the frizzle male back on the smooth females provided in the first mating
thus it will give you more of the correct frizzling in the offspring of F-1 and F-2
Using three females on the original frizzle male
(smooths if you can get them) will make three lines of frizzles for F-2 and F-3 matings
ie:
female #1
Female #2
female #3
all can be mated to each others male offspring in F-1 and F-2 and F-3 etc
you mated #1 cockerel to #2 females
#2 cockerels to #3
etc mating the same females offspring to her also
the different female F-1,F-2,F-3 females can be mated to the original cock bird also
There is much to be learned about frizzles but is very easily learnt
do not put regular feathered breed type birds back into the frizzle lines as it only detracts from the ideal frizzled feather quality
if you have to use regular feathered birds just use them in the first breeding not in F-1, F-2, F-3 etc
If I have confused you please email me any questions
remember the frizzles have a modifying gene that makes them keep the genetics for frizzling
I will post the information on the modifying gene next
Glenda L Heywood Cassville Missouri
ARTICLE #2
GLENDA HEYWOOD
IE: now days there are better smooth masles to use on frizzle females so the breeders are going that way
IE: my way in 1970's was a frizzle male to smooth females
well having bred frizzle cochins for several decades I would not breed frizzle to frizzle
the "smooths" that come from a regular feathered cochin is the ones used in the f-1 mating
of father to daughter
mother to son
I always used the smooth females to my frizzle roosters
I showed both the female frizzles and male frizzles
The smooths are very important to the mating of frizzles
when using the frizzle to frizzle you get the extreme frizzles and will eventually breed the feathers off the birds
the feather folicles will not be in the skin
the chick will have curliest tight feathers and by the third molt not have many feathers at all
these extreme frizzles make for birds that can't stand the cold or the heat and have to be culled
the fact that if one breeds the frizzles long enough to each other you breed the feather folicles
the holes in the skin for the frizzle feather to come out. I know I tried it before I learned how to breed good frizzles
Frizzles have a modifying Gene which allows their feathers to curl forward. I had a pullet that had not more than 20 feathers on her whole body so she was a waster. I figured out quick that why take the time to feed and house birds I was going to kill 1/4 of them in the end
so went to using only smooths out of frizzles and regular frizzles. that way I got 1/2 frizzles of good quality and 1/2 smooths to breed with.
I personally liked my frizzle males for breeding to the smooth females as the smooth females had better type than the smooth males. I never liked a long legged cochin male
And I showed my female frizzles as well as the frizzle males.
Never had the brittle feathers that people speak of Just had them lose the places for feathers to grow into the body with. Folicle holes. but frizzles get a tight curled narrow wet looking feather if you breed frizzle to frizzle too long.
Here is a friend of mine from Australia that explains the modifying gene in frizzles

KazJaps from Australia said this:
here is a Frizzle modifying gene (mf) that alters the ___expression of Frizzling (F). This might explain Glendas results. Put these genes together in different combinations & youll get various expressions of frizzling (or no frizzling). A bird may appear not to be frizzled, but may actually have the frizzle modifying gene masking ___expression (heterozygous for frizzling & homozygous for frizzle modifier: Ff+ mfmf). So the phenotype (how a bird looks) is non-frizzled, but genetically they have the frizzle gene. Glenda puts it nicely, Smooth Frizzle. The bird actually has one dose of the frizzle gene. Therefore offspring of 2 seemingly normal-feathered birds may produce a Frizzle (by the modifying gene becoming heterozygous or the frizzle gene becoming homozygous).
So, there are 5 main phenotypes (how a bird looks)
1: normal feathering (f+f+ Mf+Mf+ or f+f+ mfmf)
2: smooths, as Glenda calls them (Ff+ mfmf)
3: exhibition frizzles (Ff+ Mf+Mf+)
4: frizzled, less woolly than extreme (FF mfmf)
5: extreme frizzling (FF Mf+Mf+)
f+ = non-frizzled gene (wild type)
F = frizzle gene (incomplete dominant)
mf = modifying frizzle gene (recessive)
Mf+ = non-modifying frizzle gene (wild type)
FF = homozygous frizzle (2 doses of the frizzle gene)
Ff+ = heterozygous frizzle (1 dose of the frizzle gene)
mfmf = homozygous modifying frizzle (2 doses of the modifying frizzle gene)
* The modifying gene needs two copies (homozygous) for ___expression, plus the frizzle gene. The frizzle gene needs at least one copy for ___expression, plus not homozygous for modifying genes (if heterozygous for frizzling Ff+).
So, as Glenda explained, if you breed two smoothies together (Ff+ mfmf X Ff+ mfmf), there is still the possibility of getting frizzled birds (FF mfmf), about 25%. Also breeding a smoothie (Ff+ mfmf) with a normal feathered bird (wild type f+f+ Mf+Mf+) will produce frizzle (Ff+ Mf+mf), & so on
The frizzle modifying gene apparently is quite common in non-frizzled birds.
Well, thats the theory anyway. This thread is a perfect example why I like to listen to people who have bred birds for decades. It is not very common for poultry geneticists to have identified a modifying gene such as this
Glenda L Heywood Cassville Missouri

Judy McAlexander Thanks Glenda. Remember that is what you said 25 years ago. But folks have to prove it to themselves.

Glenda Heywood KasJap from Australia was a great expert on the genetic make up of a frizzle. I finally found the post and I wanted to share it with others. Thanks Judy for your comment.

Glenda Heywood Yes when smooths come from frizzle to smooth mateing they do carry the genetic make up to have a gene for frizzling in thier ofspring.
Thus the reason you need smooths to be one of the parents.
And this does not make curlies either. Just great frizzle chickens.

 

[Glenda Heywoodo]

THE FEATHER VARITY CALLED FRIZZLE IN ANY BREED TYPE.
My comment is this
When breeding frizzles besure and do not breed frizzle to frizzle because
you will get extreme frizzles or curleys eventually birds with out feathers become the norm
AN EXTREME FRIZZLE and will not be any good for breeding. It will have stringy feathers....

I am sorry but i Just say this
the wasting of feed on a extreme frizzle is not a good option.

As wasting CHICKEN FEED IT IS NOT WORTH IT IN A PURE BRED POULTRY FLOCK. that is why I never bred frizzle to frizzle JUST A WASTE OF TIME, ELECTRICITY TO HATCHING, AND FEED, AND SPACE.

On Facebook I have a page of chicken articles. So every one looking will know this is my site being used now I had this great photo sent to me Of a champion frizzle by Matt Lahmon sent to me. My daughter came and moved it up here also. Thanks Matt for making my day and bringing back the love of my life in poultry FRIZZLES along with all the other breeds.
So hopefully there are several frizzle breeders here and
remember this:

Frizzle is dominant, that is why only one parent needs the gene. If it were recessive you would need both parents to have the gene to show up.
I was asked this question:
What I want to know is if a plain mating with a frizzle comes out 50/50 then why do the hatcheries like Mcmurray say that there is no way that they can tell if it will frizzle at birth, but approx. 75% will be frizzle. How can they say that?

Glenda Heywood answered this
I would say McMurray doesn't use frizzle matings but buys them that are needed from breeders. Which when we were raising pure bred Modern Games and Frizzles Mr. McMurray would come around at the shows, and proposition us as to buying chicks or eggs from us.

Well, our answer was always NO THANKS as I did not want my birds going for 10 to 25 to 50 cents if that much
. Plus we only sold birds fit to be breeders or show birds.

Thus there are a lo of folks that sell to McMurray and Strombergs so you may take a chance and buy something good.

They do not raise all they sell by them selves, I have known a lot of folks who did sell their eggs and chicks to hatcheries which is okay as it gets good birds out to the public.
Just my 2 cents worth. Every body has different thoughts on promotion of poultry

 

[Glenda Heywoodo]

//www.backyardpoultrymag.com/…/frizzles_one_of_our_odd

frizzle articles
Backyard Poultry Magazine Articles



The following is an article Laura Haggarty has written for Backyard Poultry Magazine.
(Note, I scanned the printed article right from the magazine itself, but removed the ads.)

From Volume 5, Number 5, October/November 2010
Frizzles: One of Our Odd “Breeds”

<img src="http://visit.webhosting.yahoo.com/visit.gif?us1490959144" alt="setstats" border="0" width="1" height="1">

 

[Glenda Heywoodo]

Glenda Heywood
Frizzled Brahama bantam

https://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10203702126094927&set=basw.Abq9cj9Lvwzgt9mDHU85qwmoh1ofttkcf8nXT9N7JOH9tvLRo5oaRCeohpitLsgFHT94p-UkWOP7zPCnvmDrO54YulIhgtBOyclw1N51xeR9bBqdCmacMXFgwIHFML0I7JMuCvJC462nF46OAV7iRpFFsDNOF7DOS4tqXnsFm1fvpA.923882320993872.366611600089509.1652246221711751.519835418081788.158683664293085.1557363911199983.804926352869019.10203702126094927.556435451071488&type=1&opaqueCursor=Abpt8rJ68-M83pZzgtdM7spZNHI8ElHG5X-7y_oTkDnPaP4V94CqEmMe7w2GLP2XknoDUFwCMRezNo3ScF6k_tbFolavDfHrNPhec7pODbPZzTSCYq9jfM1zY9HXdRbh8TF_alxwwleXJZwIBSurzotbPHeAEgW61oHIDB8FQFdghzea89KwsdrW-AqJUOZDRrk7FzikW_eC7SZeuN4KlPUduFKf_uQyU3R83wbrXfgbjK6S9cnCeH1Voatzzf-mSe3Kk-L8cTxFXnAmqNe2Nl7LZrmG9uWCpb8ku8c_XpCxcQscINFTS-UL9e5ZEwlforzmt16sV-pd1G9O6CBITYyrhc_seXL7NIpLdBAcIdcgHGL3hDH9_AJpY2uxVHyZx-KlsKILHK89NvctwpmZYOa3M6swZ8XgtcfMCdl9xsy4e0MaBeCQJVJ23NRivzxpjCxbkLS3ctHOaptxoZdzdP-O



‎Mick Hinkley‎ to The egg exchange uk

· April 10, 2014 ·

Brahma eggs. From my stunning Frizzle boy Blue Partridge and his mix of Exhibition girls 2 Gold, 1 Buff Columbian.1 Orange shouldered blue. £1.50 per egg, £15.0 a dozen. Ideally collection from Chatham Kent . Can post at cost.

 

[Nanas Silkies]

I hope this thread is not dead I have some frilkies and they are all hens and I have 3 regular silkie roosters would that be good to breed with and would I get a chance of regular silkies and frilkies when I breed them???

 

[Glenda Heywoodo]

I hope this thread is not dead I have some frilkies and they are all hens and I have 3 regular silkie roosters would that be good to breed with and would I get a chance of regular silkies and frilkies when I breed them???

HERE IS A ARTICLE
explain the frizzle to smooth breeding
that you are asking about.

Some thoughts on breeding frizzles
Glenda Heywood
(1 yes a frizzle bred to a non frizzle will make a percentage of F-1 frizzles out of 100 probably about 25 I would say.

(2 but when breeding the F-1 male or female to the parent you will increase to 50% frizzles
...
(3 now what to do with the smooths ( frizzles out of frizzles but with smooth no frizzle look) After say 3-5 yrs of breeding the smooths back to a frizzle parent yes you will get some frizzles out of smooth to smooth.

(4 I know the genetic people disagree but hey! I done it and so have others. The modifying gene is in their genetics of the smooths. Thus they will have enough frizzle genetics to produce frizzle off spring.

(4-B But the frizzle has to be strong in the smooths after that many yrs it should be there. Smooths are to be non frizzle gene BUT if one keeps breeding nothing but frizzle to smooths can any one tell me why there isn't some frizzle genetics there.

(4-C I bred them several decades so know the genetics can be there.
As I only bred frizzle to smooths, never frizzle to frizzle.

(5-A) Smooths are a nice bird that has been bred out of frizzle breeding. It has to have frizzle background in several generations for two smooths out of frizzle breeding to produce a frizzled offspring.

(5-B You can't keep adding non frizzled birds back as that only cuts the percentages of frizzles coming from 100 offspring.
Every non frizzled bird bred to frizzle maks the genetic number for frizzling much less.

(5-C When breeding for the first time the regular feathered bird to a frizzle. Remember after the first yr do not use the regular feathered bird (that doesn't have any frizzle back ground) but use the smooths which are out of the frizzle breeding back on the frizzle parent.

(5-D) also use the frizzle F-1 offspring back on the frizzle parent and then do not use the frizzle to frizzle any more.

(5-E the tightly curled frizzle will not get enough feather folicles to make enough feathers also. It will be a curley frizzle. Not able to stand the heat or the cold. Usually will have to be culled. It will have tight narrow stringy feathers that have a wet look to the feathers.

(5-F the extreme frizzle generally will molt in with very few feather folicles,( meaning no holes for feathers to grow out of) and have to be discarded.

(5-G the use of frizzle to frizzle makes one automatically cull 1/4 of the offspring from a setting of these eggs.
(5-H so why feed and have to cull any as all you have to do is take and use smooths to frizzle and get 1/2 frizzles and 1/2 smooths from this mating.
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Glenda Heywood Cassville Missouri
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