SLW Young Roo - What do you think? Pics included

[CountryMom]

Katy that is much more helpful, but are any of those roosters?

 

[Katy]

I have a younger one that I don't have a picture of that I'm 99.9% sure is a roo and one of those in the pictures has a comb that's starting to get a hint more red but I'm not sure yet.

 

[rodriguezpoultry]

Thank you Katy for illustrating.

Another thing that you can look for, since you don't like the term "hatchery stock" is "production type". This means that the birds have been bred more towards production than towards the standard. They resemble the standard bred birds, but are no contest.

Even with young birds, as you can tell by Katy's pictures, the birds should be developing feathers with much better lacing than what is seen in production type birds.

It does not matter the stance of the bird just yet...that generally comes with age. What does matter is the overall quality of the bird. A good bird can be seen in any stance...unless it has a roach back or wry tail, or squirrel tail...even then, you can generally tell it had some good breeding somewhere in the line.

 

[CountryMom]

This is how I see it. As a guinea pig breeder I sell off to pet homes and sell a lot that I call pet quality. They sometimes may look outstanding to the average eye and I get a lot of questions about why I am selling it. I try to explain the fault or what I simply do not like (maybe even color since we only breed certain ones) and somewhat educate the buyer. If I simply say "pet quality" and never go into detail then the person may believe their pet seriously faulty. I do breed guinea pigs for show and therefore cull a lot (and that doesn't mean kill ok?)

So let's exchange pet quality for hatchery quality. See what I am getting at? I am not upset by hatchery quality, but I wanted to learn something and to me I know nothing about chickens confirmation - faults, colorings. Do I want to buy a standard and study? Sorry no since I honestly have no interest in showing chickens. I simply thought I could get some idea of what I had from people who knew.

So why do I have chickens? To enjoy, to have chicks now and then, and as mainly utility birds for eggs and meat.

With that in mind and with the fact that I do apreciate the better quality of anything, I tried to find decent stock in my area. Guess what, nothing this far south. Sure I could drive a good distance and purchase something. However, my weekends are generally booked solid since my oldest is trying to be the Youth Champion for the ACHA and is leading the pack by a mile. So I am devoted to hauling and helping her suceed. Chickens are not my main concern and not something I can just go off and scout out....but I am enjoying them as a hobby.

So I purchased a lot of eggs this year. Julie has been wonderful to work with and has helped me when hatches were bad. I cannot let this go without being said. I have hatched good and bad from many people. Did find some good breeding stock Welsummer chicks and happen to have a week day I could pick them up nearby. But SLW, well no luck. Even cancelled my order with Superior because it just wasn't happening.

My intentions here were to find out what I had. Hatchery stock or production stock or good breeder/show whatever stock. However, I cannot - nor can anyone else - learn without details. And in all honesty, I am tired of trying to find good stock and am happy to settle with hatchery - at least for a couple of breeds. Had a shipment arrive yesterday to go with this guy and another rooster. And I am not unhappy about it, but more relieved.

Thank you for your information Katy and Rodriguez. I seriously do see what you are saying and am glad to know.

 

[Krys109uk]

Lovely looking youngsters Katy.

Illustrated the point really nicely. Thanks

 

[walkswithdog]

You highlight a real point. Pet quality from show lines is vastly different from hatchery/production stock.

Coming from a breeder has little bearing if all that breeder does is perpetuate hatchery and production type.

I have three lines of delawares here now. Each about three weeks apart in age. They are breeder quality, a slightly improved production group, and a set from a hatchery directly. And in that order the color and body type show up in their difference.

The heritage breeder birds are better in color, width, leg color, beak color and type. The improved production birds show improved color and size over the hatchery direct birds. The hatchery birds primarily are greener legged, smaller, slower to develop and their coloring was so limited (one had no coloring at all other than white - I thought it was a mistake) they did look nearly white at first and though most have improved it would take serious culling for generations to get what I see already in the breeder birds.

I also have a line of production partridge rocks I'm working. I started with 25, sorted down to nine, of which two (the only visibly true partridge the others are stipled) will stay after this 2009 F1 hatch is grown and sorting begun. To improve size I had to bring in breeder rocks - in this case barred and bbs rocks and delawares.

A few generations for size and then back to color/comb and tail set. A heritage or show breeder WORKS on improvement in each generation.

Someone just regurgitating hatchery stock without improvements is just selling chickens. Not that it's bad, but it IS different.

While it may make you flinch to have someone look at a photo and say hatchery stock. When it's the truth - it should be said. The young cockeral was so narrow and low in feather, his lacing obviously flawed compared to heritage or show stock that of course they said hatchery.

It's not a slur, it's a group. I have some hatchery PRs. It's what I have to work up from. It's not bad, it just is. What I culled - whether killed or sold, was much worse for size, pencilling, width - so off they went. When I took pics of mine and asked opinions I got those and appreciated it when they pointed out the ones with incomplete partridge - stipling. So I knew before the first generation was produced that those had to go.

I had to keep a few partially stipled birds because I have them for laying eggs. But I won't keep any of the next generation that are. I bought the standard so I knew what to look at, so I could judge my own better and make good choices.

If people don't tell you it's poor type - you can't choose better. It's okay to start from ground zero. Just be prepared to hear you are at generation zero.

If I were improving on him, I'd hatch from the lady with the lovely six week olds (or where she got her eggs/chicks) and work up.

The breed is gorgeous done properly and even pretty as hatchery stock just very different.

My hatchery PR's are pretty - many people complement them when they're here but I KNOW where they are at compared to the standard, they're just not show or heritage quality and won't be bred here after the end of the year.

I couldn't get show PRs or Heritage PR's in the last two years of trying. So I started from ground zero. There's no shame in it, it's what the budget and the situation allow.

 

[Mrs. Turbo]

Quote:
Everyone has a good point, there is nothing wrong with having the "hatchery stock/production" birds....but if you want eye candy for the back yard and get into the SQ line of chickens your production really takes a nose dive. You run into fertility problems and the hens don't lay everyday,,,,they love to go on strike!!! ....we didn't start out with show chickens and ducks...we ordered from hatcheries and then got bored one weekend and went to a local show and could really see the difference in our chickens when compared to the show quality ones.....so then we just wanted some really, really nice ones for the back yard and my husband, being a little obsessive compulsive when it comes to improvements, not to mention the fact that he is very competitive....well, you get the picture........

 

[CountryMom]

Quote:
Walks, I apreciate your view here and understand where you are coming from. Have to say though I am NOT upset it is hatchery stock or being told so. I do however find it extremely frustrating that it was just deemed that with no explination. Now I have that and I understand. I honestly do not mind working with hatchery stock - cuz I have what I have. And so be it ground zero.

I also do know that pet stock or call it hatchery stock came from somewhere and started from something. Just like guinea pigs, they came from somewhere. If you bought a pet one locally at your Petsmart, Petco, Petland or local Mom and Pop dealer most likely you bought one from a breeder as myself. So it did come from a breeder line - just no papers and a poor example. Even the best of stock can produce junk. And I have personally kept what others have called junk and produced Best in Show winners from it.

So please when the next person comes along and asks for what people think of their stock, don't just hit them with hatchery stock and write them off.

Walks, good luck with your PRs. I never did find a decent source for some this year and basically gave up. Like I said, I will work with what I have and not be upset by it. Not worth it since they are just chickens for my ranch.

 

[CountryMom]

Mrs. Turbo :

Quote:
Everyone has a good point, there is nothing wrong with having the "hatchery stock/production" birds....but if you want eye candy for the back yard and get into the SQ line of chickens your production really takes a nose dive. You run into fertility problems and the hens don't lay everyday,,,,they love to go on strike!!! ....we didn't start out with show chickens and ducks...we ordered from hatcheries and then got bored one weekend and went to a local show and could really see the difference in our chickens when compared to the show quality ones.....so then we just wanted some really, really nice ones for the back yard and my husband, being a little obsessive compulsive when it comes to improvements, not to mention the fact that he is very competitive....well, you get the picture........

Mrs T your bird is beautiful and I congrat you on having the time and energy to devote to good SQ stock. Maybe in my life I will go that route too - but for now it just isn't happening with this breed. But that is OK. I thank the hatcheries and my hatchery stock for letting me learn and enjoy chickens even if the breeds won't win anything anywhere.​

 

[McSpin]

CountryMom,

Don't worry about whether it's hatchery stock, worry about whether they meet your goals. If your goals are very good consistent layers of beautiful large eggs, you'll find that lots of hatchery stock far exceeds some of the best show stock at doing one of the main things that chickens are bred to do. When I want birds that produce large eggs on a regular basis I never choose show stock. I usually make a cross of two decent layers. The resulting hybrids are almost always vastly superior to either parent stock. They often have better temperaments, are healthier, grow larger, liver longer and are in general more useful. However, they won't win a show. What's important to you?

Another thing to consider - beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I never let a show standard tell me what I think is beautiful. In fact, I not sure I've ever seen an ugly chicken that wasn't deformed or in poor health, though I've certainly seen a lot that don't meet a standard.