So they are going to do it again

[DylansMom]

Sigh, maybe I could just belabor it a little bit, before I forget completely...

(Getting older and forgetful is a pain)

In some ways, the black shoulder gene seems a bit like the white eye gene. Both of them appear to me to affect the expression of color WITHIN THE FEATHER ITSELF. So you get a different pattern on individual feathers with the black shoulder gene, and you get white ocelli with the white eye gene (ETA and possibly, silver dusting also).

By contrast, with the pied gene and the white gene, the leucism suppresses the color to the entire feather. Even though you get patches of white on the bird, the individual feathers are either white or colored. You don't see (at least I don't think you see) a half-white feather in a pied bird.

The silver dusting reminds me of "tipping" on fur-bearers, where the end of the individual hair is brushed with color.

@DylansMom , can you describe where on the feather the "dusting" occurs? How does it change the pattern of coloration on the individual feather?

While Governor Ralph Moonbeam is a splendid Moniker (I see where Pealover gets her prowess.) I fear it is a bit lengthy for us. With 38 Peas... 1&2 syllable names allow us to address each individually without having to take the day off to do so.

We are leaning toward Flash as he seems to be flashing his BS gene at us or Frosty for obvious reasons.
Without plucking the poor thing, he already has a complex from being photographed so often, I think the silvering covers the entire wing feather but some of them also have a white tip, which I attributed to WE genes. This bird's father is a Pied not really any silvering on him, but he does have 1 or 2 wing feathers with normal stripes and a white tip (indicative of his single WE gene?) Not too sure what it will look like on the train and back feathers, but those are also several shades lighter than the regular pied bird he hatched with. If nothing else it will be fascinating to watch him grow out, it sounds so far like opinions are leaning toward a Pied WE not Silver Pied. Thanks to all of you for that, because opinions were what I was after. To think I had this guy all lined up to be sold and then the buyer backed out, for once I'm glad.

 

[DylansMom]

IBBSSP, thanks to contributors to the Image Database:
http://peafowlimagedatabase.weebly.com/black-shoulder-silver-pied4.html


*@DylansMom : Interesting to note that one black wing feather on Texapeafowl's boy at the top...

Thanks for that, but wouldn't we expect that from a Black Shoulder Silver Pied? What I find interesting is all the striped wing feathers obviously make mine a Barred Wing, and now there are 4 BS wing feathers and I think there are 2 more growing in, usually it is barred wing or black shoulder not half & half.

He is really a fun bird.

 

[Garden Peas]

Thanks for that, but wouldn't we expect that from a Black Shoulder Silver Pied? What I find interesting is all the striped wing feathers obviously make mine a Barred Wing, and now there are 4 BS wing feathers and I think there are 2 more growing in, usually it is barred wing or black shoulder not half & half.

He is really a fun bird.

Well that's what I thought, but then I started seeing photos of birds with some of each kind of feather, and was told that often occurs when the bird is split black shoulder... And that on those birds, the amount of black feathers can perhaps vary over time? Is it possible that Ralph (oops, I mean Jumping Ralph Flash) has one BS gene?

 

[Garden Peas]

One way I look at it is a silver pied is a bird with color on white and a pied bird as one with white on color.

I think this is really helpful -- what is the predominant background, white or color? A colored bird with white patches, or a white bird with colored patches? I think that's why the Aussies call some birds "reverse pied" -- patches of color on a predominantly white bird.

(The historical definition of pied or piebald was something with white patches on it)

 

[AugeredIn]

Not all pied white eye are silver pied. There are other ingredients (most likely in the white eye genetics).

 

[Garden Peas]

Not all pied white eye are silver pied. There are other ingredients (most likely in the white eye genetics).

Can you tell us what things you look at to tell the difference?

 

[AugeredIn]

There is more white on a silver pied. The wing saddles are silvered on a silver pied and normal on a pied white eye. There is usually no color in the train of a silver pied. The difference at birth is obvious.

 

[DylansMom]

There is more white on a silver pied. The wing saddles are silvered on a silver pied and normal on a pied white eye. There is usually no color in the train of a silver pied. The difference at birth is obvious.

Could you clarify "wing saddles", I'm afraid that is a term I am unfamiliar with.

 

[KsKingBee]

There is more white on a silver pied. The wing saddles are silvered on a silver pied and normal on a pied white eye. There is usually no color in the train of a silver pied. The difference at birth is obvious.

Like the dark feathers on the back behind the wing?



Left to right; Cameo Silver Pied/Spaulding, IB Silver Pied, Cameo Pied White Eye

 

[Garden Peas]

There is more white on a silver pied. The wing saddles are silvered on a silver pied and normal on a pied white eye. There is usually no color in the train of a silver pied. The difference at birth is obvious.

Thanks, this is very helpful

I went back and looked at the photos in post #18, which sparked much of this discussion. As nearly as I can tell, there is silvering on the wing feathers and the tail, but not as much on the feathers below the neck? Is that the area you are referring to as "wing saddles?"

What do you find to be the observable differences in birds who are carrying one WE gene as compared to two? Will just having one WE gene produce silvering on feathers (or dilution of color) or only a few white ocelli, with otherwise normal colored feathers?

Is the silvering coming from WE genes, or is there some other genetic mutation also turning up in birds who have WE genes?