SOOOO mad at our school district....

[Dunkopf]

Quote:
If that was true we would have a totally non functioning society. Agreed that a percentage of our children in public schools do poorly. I'm sure that some homeschooled kids in a smaller percentage also do poorly.

I could introduce you to my kids. Or both of my sisters kids, or any number of other kids I have personally met that were public schooled and do quite well. How a child does in school has a lot more to do with parents and their home environment than it does the school.


It's too bad this thread is degenerating into the old self righteous argument about home schooling. In my opinion, most people home school so they can indoctrinate their kids without any real world issues figuring in. It also makes it easier to keep your kids on the straight and narrow. Unfortunately, real world experience is a necessary evil in my opinion. The very narrow segment of life and different people that home schooled kids are exposed to keeps them very sheltered.

Sir, I don't know where you have been, these last few years, but today's education system, from K-college, is one huge government indoctrination system, so, I guess you choose your poison.


The public school system doesn't always live up to our expectations. It's part of why this country is great though. The only people who's opinions have any weight are those that have been involved in the system. Those that listen to politicians blather on about how we're wasting money on our education system are fools. IMO of course.

Haven't we all been involved in the public school system? Why should a teacher, who's only desire is to get on the secure side of the tenure system, care about anything, beyond reaching their desired goal? Very few people have the moral capability to police themselves and do the right thing, when it's so much easier just to go along, to get along.



We need a lot more money directed towards our education. We rank near the end of the list in civilized countries for our education. They need to put more money towards education, but spend it where it's needed, instead of just throwing it at the system and letting them waste millions on an astro turf football field. The current system of property taxes paying for the schools doesn't work. All the wealthy districts have all the best schools and equipment, while the poorer districts have trash. Just another reason for the huge difference between the wealthy and the poor. The better your education the better you make out in this country.

Sadly, all that the powers that be, know how to do, is to throw money at a problem.....I was thinking about this, last night....Government's job should be to eliminate itself from peoples' lives, by being effecient. Instead, it becomes a huge, plodding machine, which will, eventually, get stuck in the mudhole of its own making, and completely grind to a halt.

Public sector unions retirement packages, local, state and federal, are completely unfunded, and you can only rob the private sector for so long.

Royd. We actually agree on something. I agree that public schooling is inefficient. They could probably do better by privatizing. As always though the less fortunate will get the short end of the stick. Private school systems that serve wealthy people will offer an excellent education. Most of the best teachers will work there. Even though a good teachers primary objective is to teach children, they have to make a living too. There just aren't that many Sidney Poitier type guys around. So poor people will get the basic amount from the govt to spend for schooling and the wealthy kids will be able to afford to supplement the basic and get an excellent education. Home schooling is not a viable alternative for 99.9 percent of the population.

The poor schools though privately run will resemble the slums that pass for housing and are subsidized by the govt. Just another way to separate the unwashed masses from the more fortunate.

 

[Dunkopf]

Quote:
If that was true we would have a totally non functioning society. Agreed that a percentage of our children in public schools do poorly. I'm sure that some homeschooled kids in a smaller percentage also do poorly.

I could introduce you to my kids. Or both of my sisters kids, or any number of other kids I have personally met that were public schooled and do quite well. How a child does in school has a lot more to do with parents and their home environment than it does the school.

It's too bad this thread is degenerating into the old self righteous argument about home schooling. In my opinion, most people home school so they can indoctrinate their kids without any real world issues figuring in. It also makes it easier to keep your kids on the straight and narrow. Unfortunately, real world experience is a necessary evil in my opinion. The very narrow segment of life and different people that home schooled kids are exposed to keeps them very sheltered.

The public school system doesn't always live up to our expectations. It's part of why this country is great though. The only people who's opinions have any weight are those that have been involved in the system. Those that listen to politicians blather on about how we're wasting money on our education system are fools. IMO of course. We need a lot more money directed towards our education. We rank near the end of the list in civilized countries for our education. They need to put more money towards education, but spend it where it's needed, instead of just throwing it at the system and letting them waste millions on an astro turf football field. The current system of property taxes paying for the schools doesn't work. All the wealthy districts have all the best schools and equipment, while the poorer districts have trash. Just another reason for the huge difference between the wealthy and the poor. The better your education the better you make out in this country.

For us, that couldn't be further from the truth! Don't overgeneralize from a biased point of view with little or no experience of your own to draw from. I personally wanted more time with my own children, that's why I chose to homeschool. We didn't homeschool our kids under a religious thumb, nor did we shelter them. The point in all of this is homeschooling is a valid option when sometimes people find no other. If you can give your child a better education at home vs the public school system, you'd be stupid NOT to do it.

I couldn't disagree with you more that we need more money for education. We don't. As a society, most of our kids take education for granted and could give two figs if they pursue it. Most homeschoolers I know have kids that have a LOVE for learning. Though I don't personally care for their teaching methods, learning is the point of schooling!

The better your education, the better you make out in this country? My husband has a bunch of college degrees, that basically look good on a resume, but the fields available are so limited, finding a job is near impossible in an area he would like to reside in. So he has had a FANTASTIC education (still paying on those loans) but that hasn't gotten him any further for it.

The schools that have the best test scores, usually get the best funding. So it isn't merely a matter of wealthy vs poor, but demographics within these school districts that play into the educational funding.

I can agree with you that a student with an active participating parent will do better in school. There's no question. That doesn't serve solely on the education of the student. The school is there to teach our kids. We are there to teach our kids. It goes hand in hand. And in case anyone forgets...the institutionalized public school system is only a century old. And in all this time, they still haven't worked out the kinks.

You're being presumptive if you think I have no experience. I don't have to prove my credentials to anyone.
I was responding to a generalization about public school education. You will also note I used the word MOST when talking about home schooled children. Ask the home schoolers on here how many of them home school their kids to shield them from the bad stuff at the public school. If they answer honestly, they will say that was their primary reason with convenience and quality as secondary considerations, or they will tell you that their child had problems socializing and did better at home. All those reasons are legitimate but by no means make public schooling bad.

Yes the public school system has been around for a long time. It helped create the America that used to be the world leader. Then it started getting massive cuts to spending. A college education produces around a 30 percent higher average pay than a high school education, That figure will continue to increase. Choosing a field is very important. A lot of people spend years in college getting a degree that is useless. That's not the systems fault. It's bad planning on the students part. If you're getting a degree just for personal satisfaction then choose any field you want. If you want to earn money choose a field that will do that for you. You can't denigrate the whole system because some people can't get a job in the field they chose.

 

[mom'sfolly]

The document cameras are wonderful too. Anything can be put under one and projected on a board. With the combination of the smart slates, which can be passed around the classroom, a teacher can have the kids working on something on the overhead. A student's work, a book, anything can be projected.

Bond issues here are usually for capital projects. The way the taxes are structured, there is not any money left for building repair, new technology or new buildings. They must be funded through bond issues. Texas also has a tax redistribution system to even out funding for schools. Bond money is specific, and cannot go into state funds. Every school in our district has "portables", supposedly temporary buildings that are permanent. At the elementary school, fifth grade and TAG are in portables; at the middle school it's 8th grade.

Administration is key. My older son had 4 or five principals during his elementary career, my younger son has had one. It makes a big difference. Teachers and parents were running the school, which is not always a good thing. A change minded principal was hired, the teachers and parents hated her, and she only lasted one year. It has taken several years for the new principal to enact many of the same changes. Her approach is a wait, watch and act. She is very hard to read, gives very little indication on which way she is going to decide and she is an excellent administrator. The hard to read and little feedback can be frustrating, but it also means she is not swaying in the breeze.

She has lost some good teacher, most moving to middle school, often with their own children, but the bad teachers are going somewhat faster.

My current biggest fear is that Texas is talking about raising class sizes to deal with their budget issues. I think the number thrown out was 35, which would almost double the elementary school class size. Smaller class size is also something that teacher's unions fight for.

 

[Dunkopf]

Quote:
Excellent post Woodmort.

You said it all.

 

[Muggsmagee]

Quote:
Oh how far we've come from what your poor mom and wife had to deal with. Can a union be helpful? Sure. Currently, our unions here in NY are corrupt, period.

The LAST thing I wanted to do is be a homeschooling advocate! I strongly disagree with this quote...STRONGLY. IMHO unless parents are doing this for religious reasons there is no real good reason for it. This quote holds as much water as a sieve. If you want to educate your children with a religious purpose, so be it. If you feel you can provide a better education than the public system, then so be it. If you want to be selfish and feel they will get a better start on their education by being schooled at home, so be it. It clearly worked for us.

If the child is not in school, however, he/she is being deprived of the social contact with his/her peers which is as much a part of education as reading, 'riting and 'rithmetic. This is a common misconception, has been studied and negated as false...repeatedly! Kids don't learn solely from other kids on how to behave. They learn social behavior by being a part of a social setting. My children were involved with soccer, basketball, public speaking, 4-H, cub scouts, girl scouts, t-ball, lego club, kids club at the library, art club, and participated in public events...with kids and adults. They knew how to interact with real people in the real world. They sure as heck were not sheltered. They knew several of the children and their parents before ever entering into public school. The only adjustments they needed to make was getting acclimated to an institution. How many public school students are socially awkward? That simply boils down to their own personality/disposition/age.

Besides, given the complexity of some of the more advanced subjects, I doubt very much as getting a book or computer program will allow someone who has never had the subject to teach it. In which case, homeschooling is a determent to the child's future. Are you serious? Can you not order a language program and learn it on your computer? Yes. Same with math, writing, spelling, etc, etc, etc. You do not have to be fluent in a subject to "teach" it. You have to provide the opportunity and the setting. That's it. My son was tested at the end of 1st grade and was reading at a high 6th grade level. And he had friends. And was not sheltered. And is currently succeeding in a public school setting. My daughter is a social butterfly. Always has been. She has made friends from teachers, staff, high school and junior high kids on the school bus, and is friends with EVERY single one of her fellow students. She is only in 2nd grade. She is at the top of her class in math, and is reading above grade level. I have recieved numerous emails this school year alone from teachers/staff on how wonderful my kids are... polite, respectful, smart, and always helping someone out. I will go ahead and pat myself on the back for that, and for taking the first few years of their schooling by keeping them home. I wouldn't take that back for all of Donald Trump's money.

No one is allowed to make a broad statement and say it applies to all kids, all families, and all situations. If your grandson had issues merging into a public school system, it falls either on the fault of the parents, or his personality. NOT because he was necessarily homeschooled. Homeschool DOES NOT mean children should never leave home. It means their education takes place outside of an institutionalized setting.

This is the beauty of living in a democratic society...we have the CHOICE to homeschool OR to enter our kids in public or parochial school. I'll be darned if someone takes an anecdotal situation and believes that pertains to me and my family.

Let's get back to the OP's original post...about the problem of her school district. The issue is NOT about homeschooling.

 

[Muggsmagee]

Quote:
For us, that couldn't be further from the truth! Don't overgeneralize from a biased point of view with little or no experience of your own to draw from. I personally wanted more time with my own children, that's why I chose to homeschool. We didn't homeschool our kids under a religious thumb, nor did we shelter them. The point in all of this is homeschooling is a valid option when sometimes people find no other. If you can give your child a better education at home vs the public school system, you'd be stupid NOT to do it.

I couldn't disagree with you more that we need more money for education. We don't. As a society, most of our kids take education for granted and could give two figs if they pursue it. Most homeschoolers I know have kids that have a LOVE for learning. Though I don't personally care for their teaching methods, learning is the point of schooling!

The better your education, the better you make out in this country? My husband has a bunch of college degrees, that basically look good on a resume, but the fields available are so limited, finding a job is near impossible in an area he would like to reside in. So he has had a FANTASTIC education (still paying on those loans) but that hasn't gotten him any further for it.

The schools that have the best test scores, usually get the best funding. So it isn't merely a matter of wealthy vs poor, but demographics within these school districts that play into the educational funding.

I can agree with you that a student with an active participating parent will do better in school. There's no question. That doesn't serve solely on the education of the student. The school is there to teach our kids. We are there to teach our kids. It goes hand in hand. And in case anyone forgets...the institutionalized public school system is only a century old. And in all this time, they still haven't worked out the kinks.

You're being presumptive if you think I have no experience. I don't have to prove my credentials to anyone.


I was responding to a generalization about public school education. You will also note I used the word MOST when talking about home schooled children. Ask the home schoolers on here how many of them home school their kids to shield them from the bad stuff at the public school. If they answer honestly, they will say that was their primary reason with convenience and quality as secondary considerations, or they will tell you that their child had problems socializing and did better at home. All those reasons are legitimate but by no means make public schooling bad.

Yes the public school system has been around for a long time. It helped create the America that used to be the world leader. Then it started getting massive cuts to spending. A college education produces around a 30 percent higher average pay than a high school education, That figure will continue to increase. Choosing a field is very important. A lot of people spend years in college getting a degree that is useless. That's not the systems fault. It's bad planning on the students part. If you're getting a degree just for personal satisfaction then choose any field you want. If you want to earn money choose a field that will do that for you. You can't denigrate the whole system because some people can't get a job in the field they chose.

You seem to only be filled with generalizations. My husband has numerous degrees in fields where jobs are available in urban/metropolitan settings...he's decided to pass and live a simpler life in a rural setting. It doesn't mean he's not utilizing them, he is, just not directly. Your comment was "The better your education the better you make out in this country". Not true. Just look at the man who invented the "wee-wee" pads for dogs. He never graduated high school, yet is a multi-multi-millionaire. You get out of life what you put into it. It could come back as monetary gain or pure friendship. Also, most times it takes money to make money. So if you come from money, that's where you get a leg up.

If you have a problem with homeschooling based solely on your children and your sister's kids being a part of a public system, then you really have no valuable input at all. You just have a biased opinion.

The public school system has SQUAT to do with creating the US as a world leader. It was from the backs of men and women who wanted a better life for themselves and their fellow countrymen.

Ask the home schoolers on here how many of them home school their kids to shield them from the bad stuff at the public school. And by "bad stuff" do you mean bullying and violence? Again, I would never fault a family for homeschooling by providing a safe, nurturing, cultured, and informative environment.

 

[mom'sfolly]

I think part of the reason all of these discussions about schooling end in the homeschool debate is that every time someone complains about a teacher, an administrator, a school, a school district etc. a homeschooling parent chimes in with the "that is why I homeschool my kid". It doesn't address the OP topic, it sidetracks the conversation, and implies that all the problems of public school can be solved at home.

This doesn't really help the person who has an issue with their school, and it is simplistic to think that homeschooling solves every public school problem.

I find the whole "that is why I homeschool my kid" basically the same as saying "I'm moving to Country X, because I don't like how the government is run". It is an opt out instead of the opt in. JMHO

 

[mom'sfolly]

I think that parents should also be aware of how each school spends the money is spends from parents. There are lots of parent funded things that many people forget about. They include:

Book fairs and scholastic book orders
box tops for education
art fundraising sales
newspaper recycling
printer cartridge recycling
campbell's soup labels
nestle water bottle labels
booster club sales
parent's contributions to field trips
yearbooks
directories
party decorations and food

Our elementary parent's forked over an extra $7000 for fieldtrips. This is on top of $7/student from the district and $7/kid from the PTA. It's not how I would choose to spend those "donations", but it is not my choice.

 

[Muggsmagee]

mom'sfolly :

The document camera's are wonderful too. Anything can be put under one and projected on a board. With the combination of the smart slates, which can be passed around the classroom, a teacher can have the kids working on something on the overhead. A student's work, a book, anything can be projected.

Bond issues here are usually for capital projects. The way the taxes are structured, there is not any money left for building repair, new technology or new buildings. They must be funded through bond issues. Texas also has a tax redistribution system to even out funding for schools. Bond money is specific, and cannot go into state funds. Every school in our district has "portables", supposedly temporary buildings that are permanent. At the elementary school, fifth grade and TAG are in portables; at the middle school it's 8th grade.

Administration is key. My older son had 4 or five principals during his elementary career, my younger son has had one. It makes a big difference. Teachers and parents were running the school, which is not always a good thing. A change minded principal was hired, the teachers and parents hated her, and she only lasted one year. It has taken several years for the new principal to enact many of the same changes. Her approach is a wait, watch and act. She is very hard to read, gives very little indication on which way she is going to decide and she is an excellent administrator. The hard to read and little feedback can be frustrating, but it also means she is not swaying in the breeze.

She has lost some good teacher, most moving to middle school, often with their own children, but the bad teachers are going somewhat faster.

My current biggest fear is that Texas is talking about raising class sizes to deal with their budget issues. I think the number thrown out was 35, which would almost double the elementary school class size. Smaller class size is also something that teacher's unions fight for.

It's fascinating to see what happens in each state. I can't imagine a classroom of 35 students! Those poor teachers. The students will suffer, too. I agree that administration is important. Our school doesn't like the changes our superintendent is making. He is doing such a good job, but has the personality of a big tree stump. I say if you don't like him, don't invite him to tea, but acknowledge he is doing a good job for our schools, students and taxpayers.

I think if we can only find ways to learn from each other, whether from another state, another school, family, whatever the situation, we can improve ourselves and schools from utilizing new perspectives.​

 

[Muggsmagee]

mom'sfolly :

I think that parents should also be aware of how each school spends the money is spends from parents. There are lots of parent funded things that many people forget about. They include:

Book fairs and scholastic book orders
box tops for education
art fundraising sales
newspaper recycling
printer cartridge recycling
campbell's soup labels
nestle water bottle labels
booster club sales
parent's contributions to field trips
yearbooks
directories
party decorations and food

Our elementary parent's forked over an extra $7000 for fieldtrips. This is on top of $7/student from the district and $7/kid from the PTA. It's not how I would choose to spend those "donations", but it is not my choice.

Yes! Perfect examples of raising money for your schools! Thank you. Maybe the OP can approach her school with a fire to fundraise. With the things on this list, it shows everyone can do a little "something" to help their schools.​