SOP Breeders: How many to hatch yearly and pen sizes?

[Mosey2003]

@Tbird84 Thanks a ton for asking this question. I too am planning for later this year to start a breeding program. I was going to start with one breed. And I was going to go small and slow as that's about as much as I can handle. I guess if I might add in a few basic questions. From how many sources would you get your starting breeding group? Or am I overthinking it on diversity of the gene pool. Sorry to hijack the thread.

Get the best you can. It's better to have one or two hens of good quality where you can track the parentage than a dozen of lower quality. I have only one hen for certain that I'm going to breed. Depending on evaluation this March, I may have two or three. If you start off with a bunch of hens and more than one male, you're going to have to do a lot of tracking and paperwork to see what you get from whom. Personally, I'd rather hatch more chicks from one pairing than fewer spread out over multiple.

 

[Chickenaddition]

Glad to hear this @Mosey2003. I have had chickens in the past but I am looking to teach myself and my son a bit on genetics and also breed to a standard. It's a new thing and so I appreciate all that you guys do to share knowledge. I can't thank everyone enough on the friendliness and experience sharing we have on this forum. It's something I missed.

 

[Mosey2003]

Glad to hear this @Mosey2003. I have had chickens in the past but I am looking to teach myself and my son a bit on genetics and also breed to a standard. It's a new thing and so I appreciate all that you guys do to share knowledge. I can't thank everyone enough on the friendliness and experience sharing we have on this forum. It's something I missed.

What I've done getting started is to read the standard first. Read it many times. Look at the pictures. Then look for pictures of real birds and start trying to pick out different parts. Is that a good back? How is that underline? A huge help to me was Fred's Plymouth Rock Breeders thread. What breed are you looking to get into? There might be a thread about it, where you can look at all the photos posted and see what judges and experienced breeders say about different birds. You need to be able to SEE what is going on with a bird. And you need to know what your first/primary focus will be. For me, with my Barred Rocks, my focus is a deep full breast/underline, the best topline I can get, and WIDTH - all the way from shoulder to tail. My primary choice hen is the best in all three of those categories.

 

[Chickenaddition]

Get the best you can. It's better to have one or two hens of good quality where you can track the parentage than a dozen of lower quality. I have only one hen for certain that I'm going to breed. Depending on evaluation this March, I may have two or three. If you start off with a bunch of hens and more than one male, you're going to have to do a lot of tracking and paperwork to see what you get from whom. Personally, I'd rather hatch more chicks from one pairing than fewer spread out over multiple.

I am still deciding on the breed. Right now it's between Brahma (Lemon Pyle coloration), Ameracauna (Wheaton coloration), and Maran's (Black Copper coloration).

I believe I can get good stock fairly easily of the Maran's and probably the Ameracauana's. The Lemon Pyle Brahma might be a longer harder project but it's a breed I truly love so it's pulling ahead.

 

[Mosey2003]

I am still deciding on the breed. Right now it's between Brahma (Lemon Pyle coloration), Ameracauna (Wheaton coloration), and Maran's (Black Copper coloration).

I believe I can get good stock fairly easily of the Maran's and probably the Ameracauana's. The Lemon Pyle Brahma might be a longer harder project but it's a breed I truly love so it's pulling ahead.

Your best bet will be to see if you can find a very good breeder and see if he or she will mentor you, along with setting you up with either chicks, eggs, or maybe a breeder trio.

 

[Chickenaddition]

Thanks again for all your tips Mosey2003. Once I get to that stage here I will be sure to ask more. This has been an incredibly informative morning. It's got my thinking of layouts and has drastically changed my concepts. Much appreciated.

 

[Tbird84]

This site does have some of the friendliest and knowledgeable people around. From what I've read in my research, when you find the breeder line you want to get your start from, stick with that strain. Resist the urge to out cross to other breeder's birds. They've done the hard work to set the traits in their birds and out crossing to another line can completely throw things out of wack. I have learned tons by reading all of the late Bob Blosl's posts on his breeding of the Rhode Island Red. When you need a shot of fresh blood, find someone who has the same line or go back to that breeder. I'm going to try to get to some shows this year to find out even more to help me on getting started.

 

[h2oratt]

Let me put it this way. You can maintain a flock with few hatches but once it starts going south on you you must immediately put out a hundred or more to find the next breeders. You don't need to put out mass chicks every year. So in this way you could work hard on one breed and maintain others. Round robin it as to need. I'd still keep the number of breeds down at first. Honestly would not try more than two. Put some years notches on your belt and see how it goes.

Other thing to keep in mind is your going to want to hold onto best breeders for years. You'll be backcrossing to them and may need to use to pull back a needed attribute and so on. Housing of multi generations takes space. They wont always be in the breeder pen but you wont want to cull them either.

What breeds are you working on?

 

[Mosey2003]

That's another reason I want to track which chicks come from which hen, if I use more than one. I'm going to want to keep the best breeders, so I need to know which they are. I plan to keep them in my laying flock and just pull them out to breed when I want. Then, whatever pullets I think worth keeping can go in too. So I'll remove however many older, less correct ones as I keep better pullets each year. That's my plan for awhile, anyway.

 

[Sleepytime]

@Tbird84 Thanks a ton for asking this question. I too am planning for later this year to start a breeding program. I was going to start with one breed. And I was going to go small and slow as that's about as much as I can handle. I guess if I might add in a few basic questions. From how many sources would you get your starting breeding group? Or am I overthinking it on diversity of the gene pool. Sorry to hijack the thread.

I've honestly never paid much attention to having multiple sources. I've concentrated on having the best individuals I can find to begin with. Most of the breeders that I've talked that have been successfully breeding for many years follow this general plan: start with 4 good pairs (call them A, B, C, and D). Hatch as many as you can. Make sure the chicks hatched are marked so that you know which pair they come from. Record number of eggs laid and hatch rate. If a certain pair has a low hatch rate (and if you're certain that it's not due to mistakes you've made in incubating the eggs), cull that pair. Evaluate each group of chicks from each pair. Ask yourself if any are as good or better than the parents. If they're better, keep the parents for the next year's breeding. If they're as good, but no improvement, decide if you may want to pair them differently. Let's say you have your 4 pair and pair A and B both produced a few that improved on the parents. Pair C's chicks are good, but no better and pair D didn't produce any that you would want to breed. You'll definitely want to keep A and B and have to think about C. D would be sold. In this case, what I would do for year 2, would be to take the best 1 or 2 daughters from group A and B and breed back to their fathers and take the best son and breed back to the mother. If those sons and daughters were a clear improvement, then I'd probably also sell pair C. You could also have them as extras if you lost a breeder and need a replacement. Continue to keep good records on amount laid and hatch rate. If everything is good, you do the same thing again. Take the best from each pair and breed them back to their parents. You should be seeing improvements every year. At some point, there may come a time when egg fertility falls or egg production. At this point, you cross your lines-your best from A crossed with your best from B. If you can, have 2 or 3 pairs which will become your new A, B, and C groups. This is line breeding. After a few years of breeding your best chicks back to their parents, you will start getting very consistent, good birds. Let me say though, that it only works if you keep good records and are culling those that aren't up to standard. There are breeders that have been doing this for 30 years or more without ever bringing in another bloodline. If you do cross to a completely differently line, you will be starting over just like it's year one again. Unfortunately, you can't look at a bird and tell what traits they'll pass on. Make sure you know the SOP for your breed thoroughly. If you don't know what results should be, you're not going to know which to cull and which to breed. Besides body structure, make sure you are breeding the healthiest of your chicks. It doesn't matter how good they look if they're sickly. Like I said, all this is advice from breeders who have raised consistent winners year after year for many years. I finally got advice when I got frustrated over getting such inconsistent results. I'd been breeding from different individuals every year, not culling hard enough and not being picky about pairing up the best. I still have a ways to go, but I'm definitely hatching more every year that are closer to my goal. I know this is kind of long, but hopefully it will help you out some.