SOP's Can you help, or do you want to learn?

[Mother of Chaos]

A question for those who breed to SOP: how many standards relate to physical appearance (phenotype) as it relates to health and function, versus aesthetics?

For instance, if a rooster’s tail is 10° past vertical, does that have some sort of direct negative effect on rooster health or behavior? Or is it “I don’t like how that looks”?

 

[SourRoses]

I love threads like these! Breed specific conversations tend to leave a lot of folks out.

Brian Reeder talks about tail angle in "An Introduction to Form and Feathering of the Domestic Fowl".

I was also really interested in his discussion of extra feathering in tails. When I looked around at show type fowl I started seeing it. Have a look at this Ameraucana roo (Stan Alder). That's a cool tail, right?!

 

[Mrs. K]

how many standards relate to physical appearance (phenotype) as it relates to health and function, versus aesthetics?

I kind of felt like you, and to be honest, for years my main characteristic was is the bird alive? Laying? enough said.

But I accidentally stumbled on another posters post, and they were discussing what to look for, and I realized that I really did not know much more than symmetry in the beak and wings, and toes. Heavier birds, on the same feed. And if that is all you use it is perfectly fine.

Then I got the great idea, that if I hatched green eggs one year, brown eggs the next, then white eggs, well, I would be able to see when production went down in older chickens. I was quite excited to see my green egg pullets actually produced green eggs this spring.

Then Ted Brown asked "how to chose" and I realized I really didn't know a lot about what chicken should be like. I think the video above, "Build a better chicken' could be applied to all birds and improve a flock over time.

If you just want chickens - don't sweat it, I didn't for years. But if you want to play, to see if you can get something a little better, well come join us.

Mrs K

 

[Ted Brown]

I agree with @Mrs. K, "If you just want chickens - don't sweat it".

I have zero experience breeding to the SOP however, several years back I discovered that Canada has a breed (Chantecler) developed about two hours from where I live. Acquiring some was a natural but actually getting to a position to "breed" (as opposed to putting a few eggs in an incubator) is not trivial.

One either needs a singe breed or separate quarters to get the chosen birds together. I had multiple breeds (I like coloured eggs) in a single coop & run. I acquired additional cages last fall and was then able to select which birds I would put together but, I only breed in the Spring so here we are. That led to the obvious - which hens and rooster to put together and choosing the best one has was a no brainer, hence the SOP.

Even then not easy. Taking pictures good enough to compare is almost impossible even if one knows the SOP and what to look for. The video mentioned above was posted by @Sic and gave a partial answer - grab the bird and start to use your hands. Mrs. K's suggestion to reduce the choices by eliminating the worst over several steps is also brilliant and works.

I am certain that using the SOP will produce some with undesirable traits, those I will eliminate then carry on.

 

[Sic]

For example, I have been reading about the angle of the roosters tail. 30 degrees. I cannot be envisioning this correctly as most tails on roosters seem to be much greater than that - 70 to 90?

Strictly speaking about the angle of the tail itself, not to be confused with the sickle feathers. As an example (not a great picture, but it's on my phone) a young cockerel and the standard of his breed regarding the tail:

well filled and only slightly opened, medium length, angle carried at 20 degrees. The numerous medium-length sickles are slightly curved.

 

[Sic]

A question for those who breed to SOP: how many standards relate to physical appearance (phenotype) as it relates to health and function, versus aesthetics?

For instance, if a rooster’s tail is 10° past vertical, does that have some sort of direct negative effect on rooster health or behavior? Or is it “I don’t like how that looks”?

Form follows function. Breed standards are designed to reflect both the physical form and the functional abilities of the breed. These standards aim to preserve the breed's original purpose and characteristics. Every aspect of the standard defines the breed and it is what makes the breed different from any other. If you don't follow the Standards for your breed, you lose type, you lose the distinguishing features, and you don't have that breed anymore. You should know your breed well enough to recognize it from a black silhouette.

 

[Mother of Chaos]

Form follows function. Breed standards are designed to reflect both the physical form and the functional abilities of the breed. These standards aim to preserve the breed's original purpose and characteristics. Every aspect of the standard defines the breed and it is what makes the breed different from any other. If you don't follow the Standards for your breed, you lose type, you lose the distinguishing features, and you don't have that breed anymore. You should know your breed well enough to recognize it from a black silhouette.

This is what I had hoped to hear. I’ve seen the opposite in dog world standards that too often encourage breeding for oddities that many seem to feel are cute but in fact lead to respiratory problems, etc.

 

[BlindLemonChicken]

This is what I had hoped to hear. I’ve seen the opposite in dog world standards that too often encourage breeding for oddities that many seem to feel are cute but in fact lead to respiratory problems, etc.

Hey! Don’t talk about my pug like that.

 

[Mother of Chaos]

Hey! Don’t talk about my pug like that.

Exactly why I didn’t specify! And I think pugs are adorable.

 

[Mrs. K]

What breed is that rooster? Would you consider the tail and sickle feathers worthy of breeding?

It is amazing to me, that while I have had chickens for years - I really don't know how to look at them, and what to see.

Please keep teaching @Sic, that is what I want to learn.