Sour Crop resulting from Egg Yolk Peritonitis?

[Chula Boola]

Bad news, y'all. Sour crop is back. I noticed her standing away from everyone before bedtime last night, with the tell-tale puffy crop pushing out her feathers. I picked her up to feel her crop and she puked again. It was full of more liquid.

She did so well toward the end of her 7 days. I thought she was going to be fine. After seeing her yesterday, I was afraid she was going to pass away over night because her feathers were not preened and she didn't look happy. But she made it overnight. Her crop had liquid in it this morning. She wasn't interested in breakfast. What's the course of action now? Should I put more copper sulfate in the water?

We are on the brink of that polar vortex and it's going to drop into the 30s and 20s soon which isn't normal for us on the Texas Gulf Coast and I worry it will kill her since she's weak now. Suggestions? Her flock is still accepting of her and haven't began to pick on her as of now.

 

[TwoCrows]

Bad news, y'all. Sour crop is back. I noticed her standing away from everyone before bedtime last night, with the tell-tale puffy crop pushing out her feathers. I picked her up to feel her crop and she puked again. It was full of more liquid.

She did so well toward the end of her 7 days. I thought she was going to be fine. After seeing her yesterday, I was afraid she was going to pass away over night because her feathers were not preened and she didn't look happy. But she made it overnight. Her crop had liquid in it this morning. She wasn't interested in breakfast. What's the course of action now? Should I put more copper sulfate in the water?

We are on the brink of that polar vortex and it's going to drop into the 30s and 20s soon which isn't normal for us on the Texas Gulf Coast and I worry it will kill her since she's weak now. Suggestions? Her flock is still accepting of her and haven't began to pick on her as of now.

Oh poor dear, it's very disheartening when you think it's all over only to return again. All these symptoms may be secondary to something else going on inside her body. Simple yeast or bacteria infections generally go away after such aggressive treatment. And since it's all come back, she very well may be internally laying or even has liver disease. (Poop is often dark green with Liver Disease.) And either of these conditions I just mentioned will cause yeast and bacterial infections.

And since we don't know what else might be making her I'll, all you can do at this point is keep treating her symptoms in hope's the real problem heals itself. If she were mine, I would set up a cage with the flock so she isn't alone and they don't forget her. If she looks sick and or cold and not eating, I would use an infra red heat lamp on her, even at night. (You can move her to another place at night so the light doesn't disturb the others.) I would start her on the Copper again for a 7-10 days, give her another chance to survive. I have had situations like this where the yeast infection never went away and after 2 months of on and off treatments. The bird had lost so much weight and was clearly uncomfortable, I had them put down.

Out of curiosity, you might also get a poop sample to take to your vet for a fecal exam, you can then rule out worms and Coccidiosis.

Many hugs to you and her, keep us posted along the way.

 

[Chula Boola]

Thank you, @TwoCrows . I definitely feel like there's an internal issue going on now. I hate to see it. I am going to give her more treatment and hope against all hope that she comes through. I will update along the way.

 

[TwoCrows]

Thank you, @TwoCrows . I definitely feel like there's an internal issue going on now. I hate to see it. I am going to give her more treatment and hope against all hope that she comes through. I will update along the way.

Sometimes time does heal them. It's worth another round of meds to see if she does make a turn around. You wish you could just ask the bird what they feel for a better understanding of what's going on.

 

[TwoCrows]

@Chula Boola here is a shot in the dark suggestions that you might consider. I once had a hen that had all kinds of food issues, at 6 months old she started having constant sour crop that reoccured after treatment. After nearly giving up, she was thin and looking like death, I switched her off of Purina Layena to Manna Pro feed and her sour crops stopped. However she was always sensitive to too many carbohydrates and still got sour crop if she ate too much scratch, berries, fruits, any high carbo foods. So you might not only try a feed change but only offer protein based treats....meats or mealworms, greens never cause trouble (kale, broccoli slaw, cabbage...) If you do make a feed change, do it slowly over 3 or 4 weeks time slowly adding the new feed by 20% a week or so until it's 100%. Birds are extremely sensitive to feed changes and all of them will have crop issues if you go too fast.

Anyway, just some thoughts, none of it may make a difference, but when it comes to saving them, sometimes it's worth trying everything.

 

[Chula Boola]

@Chula Boola here is a shot in the dark suggestions that you might consider. I once had a hen that had all kinds of food issues, at 6 months old she started having constant sour crop that reoccured after treatment. After nearly giving up, she was thin and looking like death, I switched her off of Purina Layena to Manna Pro feed and her sour crops stopped. However she was always sensitive to too many carbohydrates and still got sour crop if she ate too much scratch, berries, fruits, any high carbo foods. So you might not only try a feed change but only offer protein based treats....meats or mealworms, greens never cause trouble (kale, broccoli slaw, cabbage...) If you do make a feed change, do it slowly over 3 or 4 weeks time slowly adding the new feed by 20% a week or so until it's 100%. Birds are extremely sensitive to feed changes and all of them will have crop issues if you go too fast.

Anyway, just some thoughts, none of it may make a difference, but when it comes to saving them, sometimes it's worth trying everything.

You know what? Right before this happened, I changed their feed but only from pelleted to crumble. Same brand, the Nutrena Naturewise Layer feed.

Also, I have been racking my brain and watched a few necropsy videos with EYP and just other general informational vids about EYP. I went outside about an hour ago to do a better examination of her. I don't really think that it's EYP. When I feel her belly, she's gotten skinny and there's not really any masses in there that would suggest a raging infection or excess of yolk build up. Nothing like a watery belly... she's just skinny now. She's still moving around well. She kinda tried to run with everyone to the front of the pen to greet me when I walked up. Could it be just because I moved them from pelleted to crumble?? They are nearly done with this bag of crumble. I am tempted to toss it and get more pelleted food now. What do you think? If nothing else, the fall back is going to be that it's likely liver failure maybe.

I dug deeper into liver failure and saw a site suggesting either fatty liver (which I am positive she doesn't have, she was never a big big girl), or liver failure due to mycotoxicosis via aflatoxin produced by Aspergillus flavus. I keep their feed in the UV/Squirrel resistant plastic bins with screw on lids so idk if that's even the right train of thought. Could food spilled on the ground and then mold be the cause of her liver failure?

EDIT: I do give mealworms as a treat. I brought some out this morning but she wasn't super interested today. And I meant to say *crumble* not grain feed.

 

[TwoCrows]

You know what? Right before this happened, I changed their feed but only from pelleted to grain. Same brand, the Nutrena Naturewise Layer feed.

Also, I have been racking my brain and watched a few necropsy videos with EYP and just other general informational vids about EYP. I went outside about an hour ago to do a better examination of her. I don't really think that it's EYP. When I feel her belly, she's gotten skinny and there's not really any masses in there that would suggest a raging infection or excess of yolk build up. Nothing like a watery belly... she's just skinny now. She's still moving around well. She kinda tried to run with everyone to the front of the pen to greet me when I walked up. Could it be just because I moved them from pelleted to grain?? They are nearly done with this bag of grain. I am tempted to toss it and get more pelleted food now. What do you think? If nothing else, the fall back is going to be that it's likely liver failure maybe.

I dug deeper into liver failure and saw a site suggesting either fatty liver (which I am positive she doesn't have, she was never a big big girl), or liver failure due to mycotoxicosis via aflatoxin produced by Aspergillus flavus. I keep their feed in the UV/Squirrel resistant plastic bins with screw on lids so idk if that's even the right train of thought. Could food spilled on the ground and then mold be the cause of her liver failure?

Hmmm....feed changes can definitely cause reoccurring sour crops and yeast infections as does aflatoxin. So this entire issue may be related to the feed!

So if her system is still trying to adjust to the feed, she may have crop issues on and off until she adapts. How long is entirely up to her, I have had birds not effected at all from feed changes and others that has yeasty crops for months. It is possible however that she is unable to tolerate the new form of food even though it's from the same manufacturer.

How exactly do you store your feed? Chicken feed is very susceptible to spoiling outside in humidity and heat especially when kept in containers. Aflatoxins grow VERY easily and are quite deadly. Chicken feed only lasts at cool dry STABLE temps for a couple of months which afterwards the oils start to go rancid in the grains. I store my feed inside the house during the summer, yes hubby tells at me all the time, and in the winter in a cold stone building. And even then, I don't store any feed longer than 2 months and I only purchase feed that I can see a date of a manufacturing on. Some of this feed can be 6 months to a year old and in my eyes, its toxic at this point. I need to see dates or at least purchase a feed I know is moving off the shelf. Be very careful with whole grains, especially corn, its famous for Aflatoxins.

 

[TwoCrows]

I just saw your edit....ok, pellets to crumble shouldn't be a problem at all.

Do you store this feed outside in this container? Constant temp fluctuations can cause feed to spoil.

 

[Chula Boola]

Hmmm....feed changes can definitely cause reoccurring sour crops and yeast infections as does aflatoxin. So this entire issue may be related to the feed!

So if her system is still trying to adjust to the feed, she may have crop issues on and off until she adapts. How long is entirely up to her, I have had birds not effected at all from feed changes and others that has yeasty crops for months. It is possible however that she is unable to tolerate the new form of food even though it's from the same manufacturer.

How exactly do you store your feed? Chicken feed is very susceptible to spoiling outside in humidity and heat especially when kept in containers. Aflatoxins grow VERY easily and are quite deadly. Chicken feed only lasts at cool dry STABLE temps for a couple of months which afterwards the oils start to go rancid in the grains. I store my feed inside the house during the summer, yes hubby tells at me all the time, and in the winter in a cold stone building. And even then, I don't store any feed longer than 2 months and I only purchase feed that I can see a date of a manufacturing on. Some of this feed can be 6 months to a year old and in my eyes, its toxic at this point. I need to see dates or at least purchase a feed I know is moving off the shelf. Be very careful with whole grains, especially corn, its famous for Aflatoxins.

I keep their feed in the Vittles Vaults as seen here: https://vittlesvault.com/products/outback-collection/

I store them on a shelf on my back porch. Of course where I am located we are always humid! I have never noticed actual whitening or mold on the feed, but that doesn't mean it's not happening. I always wondered if the inside of the bins condensate as it gets humid outside, but I never noticed them wet on the insides. Maybe I need to find a place to store them inside. My husband will also not be a fan of this idea LOL but we gotta do what we gotta do for our babies!

I do feed them scratch on occasion, I keep scratch in the same type of bin. Same location. I also keep their worms in a smaller vittles vault on the back porch, as well.

Truthfully, the entire reason I changed them to crumble from pelleted food is just because We made them the PVC gravity feeders and felt like that would move through easier than the pellets. I think I will just get them more pelleted feed today. I also, admittedly, was kinda going hard on the scratch grains for a little bit there. Every morning after not giving them super often for a handful of days. I just can't go out there empty handed because they give me those eyes like I betrayed them LOL
I am also considering cutting out scratch. I do give them veggies like peas, carrots, cabbage. Also chopped fruits like apples, grapes, blueberries, etc...

 

[TwoCrows]

I keep their feed in the Vittles Vaults as seen here: https://vittlesvault.com/products/outback-collection/

I store them on a shelf on my back porch. Of course where I am located we are always humid! I have never noticed actual whitening or mold on the feed, but that doesn't mean it's not happening. I always wondered if the inside of the bins condensate as it gets humid outside, but I never noticed them wet on the insides. Maybe I need to find a place to store them inside. My husband will also not be a fan of this idea LOL but we gotta do what we gotta do for our babies!

I do feed them scratch on occasion, I keep scratch in the same type of bin. Same location. I also keep their worms in a smaller vittles vault on the back porch, as well.

Truthfully, the entire reason I changed them to crumble from pelleted food is just because We made them the PVC gravity feeders and felt like that would move through easier than the pellets. I think I will just get them more pelleted feed today. I also, admittedly, was kinda going hard on the scratch grains for a little bit there. Every morning after not giving them super often for a handful of days. I just can't go out there empty handed because they give me those eyes like I betrayed them LOL
I am also considering cutting out scratch. I do give them veggies like peas, carrots, cabbage. Also chopped fruits like apples, grapes, blueberries, etc...

I would stop storing the feed on the porch. Temp changes does cause condensation even in the smallest level and toxins grow even though you don't see them. These toxins are invisible and have no smell. You've heard of recent dog food recalls, many of them from spoiled grains with Aflatoxins and many dogs die. So you definitely need to find a place with more stable temps, I use a closet and yes hubby whines, but he also knows it's for the chickens well being. (I think he just likes to whine just because he can. ) If you have a basement that isn't too humid, that will work too.

Next, I wouldn't fill up and feeder with any more food than they will consume in one day. Feed sitting in feeders uneaten will go bad in certain environmental conditions. Some feeds are just not stable and go rancid fast. So I think if you store your feed in a drier more stable environment (I keep the feed in their original bags) and only put out what they will eat that day, feed is less likely to cause trouble.

Now once they get sick on feed, it can take a while to heal, if it doesn't kill them. If this is an Aflatoxin, it attacks the liver. Dark green leaves like kale and broccoli slaw help clean the liver. Livers can heal and regrow if they aren't too damaged. Aloevera juice helps detox livers as does Milk Thistle.