Spanish Ranch Mastiffs

[dainerra]

But at the same time, if they truly are good guardians does it really matter? Have they scammed people? Genuinely asking.

Going off your posts it seems that they have and are very well known and notorious?

And I wonder if they even saw the dogs in Spain?

I admit, I believed that too lol

responsible breeders of any breed put a lot of time, money, energy and (in many cases) their life's work into making sure each litter of pups they produce are better than the one before. They follow the standard closely so that anyone who buys a dog of breed X has a very clear expectation of what type of personality, size, energy level, protectiveness, etc when they bring home their new puppy. They also have a clear expectation of what health problems they may need to watch out for and know what questions to ask the breeder to help insure they get a healthy puppy that will live a long and happy life.

When someone misrepresents what breed a dog is, such as not admitting that it is a mix and trying to pass it off as something special they are 1) riding on the coattails of the responsible breeders and all of their hard work while at the same time 2) thumbing their noses at them and 3) letting buyers make assumptions on what to expect of their new puppy that have no basis in reality.
It's also common for such breeders to lie about potential health issues and claim that "only those show dogs have problems. My dogs are working dogs so I don't need to do those health tests" when actually they should be doing twice as many health tests since pups could inherit problems from both breeds. Especially when you get to 2nd generation of the "new breed" and beyond.

 

[ShrekDawg]

responsible breeders of any breed put a lot of time, money, energy and (in many cases) their life's work into making sure each litter of pups they produce are better than the one before.    They follow the standard closely so that anyone who buys a dog of breed X has a very clear expectation of what type of personality, size, energy level, protectiveness, etc when they bring home their new puppy.   They also have a clear expectation of what health problems they may need to watch out for and know what questions to ask the breeder to help insure they get a healthy puppy that will live a long and happy life.

When someone misrepresents what breed a dog is, such as not admitting that it is a mix and trying to pass it off as something special they are 1) riding on the coattails of the responsible breeders and all of their hard work while at the same time 2) thumbing their noses at them and 3) letting buyers make assumptions on what to expect of their new puppy that have no basis in reality.     
It's also common for such breeders to lie about potential health issues  and claim that "only those show dogs have problems.  My dogs are working dogs so I don't need to do those health tests"  when actually they should be doing twice as many health tests since pups could inherit problems from both breeds.  Especially when you get to 2nd generation of the "new breed" and beyond.

Hmm, that does make sense, thanks. But then again, aren't they still breeding for something? Or is that a scam too and they're just doing it for the money? I ask because what you said is true but, for example, about the misrepresenting part, if someone says a dog is "pomsky" or selling a Northern breed such as a Malamute or Husky as a "wolfdog", then that is absolutely misrepresenting it and the buyer expects something with no basis in reality, like you said. But if they are just breeding working dogs, then wouldn't it at least have some basis in reality? Couldn't you at least expect that it would be a good guardian or have some characteristics of the maremma or tetra? I swear I am not defending them, they are terrible people, but I guess what I'm saying is wouldn't it still be somewhat realistic? You expect a good guardian dog and you get one versus expecting a wolf and you get a sociable husky instead? But then again, they are still calling it a "spanish ranch mastiff" which I now know it is clearly NOT? And maybe it's just a misunderstanding or choice of words thing, maybe what you more meant is that you can't expect any consistent size, coat type, coat color, etc.? And I guess you can't expect any predictable health issues or personality either? Even if they were good guardians, each dog might be different with people and stuff? Though they did say theyre friendly. All of this leads to my next question: obviously misrepresenting and lying about what they are is bad and obviously somebody could just buy another guardian breed to get what they want but are they actually as good of guardians as they say or is that a lie too? Genuinely asking here. And actually, I guess the whole thing is shady too because like I said, I fell for the site before I read the rest of this thread, so an unsuspecting buyer would surely fall for it too and may NOT find this thread and that's the problem? But if they can work (can they?), some buyers may only care about that? But that's a whole other problem. Also wait, do they overprice them too cause they claim they're special? Sorry for rambling/asking a million things ha

 

[dainerra]

It comes down to basic trustworthy behavior. They are obviously misrepresenting what the dogs are so can you trust them to be honest about the parents working ability? Health? Temperament?
If they wanted to sell working dogs, they could do that while being honest about the breed. Those who care more about working ability will gladly buy them. By lying they are trying to lure in people who might not otherwise look twice at their dogs.

 

[ShrekDawg]

It comes down to basic trustworthy behavior. They are obviously misrepresenting what the dogs are so can you trust them to be honest about the parents working ability? Health? Temperament?
If they wanted to sell working dogs, they could do that while being honest about the breed. Those who care more about working ability will gladly buy them. By lying they are trying to lure in people who might not otherwise look twice at their dogs.

Ahhh okay, I hadn't really thought of that before, that makes sense. Come to think of it, they probably are lying about the parents anyway especially since you said they lied about where they got the first dogs too, right?

 

[rlh0518]

So, after reading their websites, tamaracksheep.com/uncategorized/history-of-livestock-guard-dogs-at-tamarack-lamb-wool/ and lovetreefarmstead.com/dogs/htm I have to say, I don't see anything misrepresented, either intentionally or unintentionally. They each pretty clearly state that they are trying to breed for function, and identify the crosses as crosses. They say "ranch" type, do distinguish it from the "concurso" type of SM. This all seems pretty straightforward and honest to me. In fact, it seems like they are actually trying hard to distinguish their working lines or "ranch" or "aboriginal" type from the show/pet/"concurso" type. Am I missing something? And if so, could whoever informs me prove it with links to this proof? In this age of armchair experts and faceless chatroom/forum posts, it's difficult to just take someone's word that they are who they say they are.


Thanks!!

 

[lgdnevada]

You all definitely seem really knowledgeable and after lgdnevada's post, they definitely seem extremely sketchy and not reputable at all.

after reading all the posts here, it's not mean anymore and never was and they sound like horrible people and threatening to sue? Really? Wow...

But at the same time, if they truly are good guardians does it really matter? Have they scammed people? Genuinely asking.

Going off your posts it seems that they have and are very well known and notorious?

And I wonder if they even saw the dogs in Spain?

I admit, I believed that too lol

Don't feel bad. They have been able to sell their made up designer breed to a lot of people here who bought their line of BS.

What they say they saw in Spain were more likely crossbreds of aboriginal dogs.

Again, read my lengthy post above wherein I quote Falk and McNalley now trying to claim what they "really" brought over, were Cao de Gado Transmontanos. Which is a load of BS because that is a Portuguese breed. In other words, these women blow with the wind, and change their story every few years and tweak their website to reflect their current line of what they are peddling. They've stopped advertising their dogs a lot too. The verbiage only changed recently to say "ranch type" but I have screenshots saved in documents of the many years they called it Spanish Ranch Mastiff with no quotes and no "type".

Just FYI peoples, know this: amongst serious purebred SM breeders in America and also abroad, these women have zero credibility. Maybe their dogs work - no problem there, that's great - but don't piss on my leg, ladies, and tell me it's raining.

Just don't be duped into thinking the dogs are what they claim. They are not. You want to buy one from them because the dogs work that's fine. Just don't go around calling it a purebred SM or a SRM because you'll be laughed off of the planet pretty quickly by most who know better and consider these women fraudsters and scammers….

 

[lgdnevada]

Here is a recent You Tube done by filmmakers out of LA, California, showcasing my Spanish Mastiffs who are not nor ever have been, shown. They work. Period. And their pups work, all over the USA and Canada. These are real Spanish Mastiffs, not crossbred fakes…