'Splain something to me in re to baseball-type caps

[Dunkopf]

Manners and morals are indeed related in some areas. I know plenty of people who have impeccable manners but their morals suck. Most people with actual good morals will hold a door open and not speak on a phone during a school concert unless it's an emergency. They will help an old lady put her groceries in the car or put her basket back in the basket corral.

As for graduating school or getting preggers at an early age. You can only do your best on those items. I impress upon all my children how important an education is. I let them know that dropping out is not an option. However we all know that in reality they can do it by law. We also know that we have a legal responsibility to provide for them till age 18 as well as a moral responsibility IMO. I also talk to my children at least a couple times a year about responsible sexual behavior. I wont discuss what I teach them , only because some kids read this line and I am not their parent. I will say that teaching morals does not stop a pregnancy. After all there is a very popular woman who has a daughter that was allegedly raised in the most moral of circumstances and she had a baby at an early age and out of wedlock. It happens and it doesn't really apply to morals or manners.

Bad manners doesn't mean a kid is going to grow up living on the public dole. You can have a great work ethic and have horrendous manners.

I practice good manners because I care about what people think about me. People with bad manners don't even get noticed by me unless they are atrocious and gross, or they affect me.

We have an 8 year old daughter that has diabetes. When DW and I go out to a movie we leave the cell on vibrate. If the babysitter who is always capable of taking her blood number calls us we want to know. I would ignore anyone telling me to turn my cell off except a flight attendant. I too grew up without cell phones. If my job didn't supply one and require me to keep it on, I probably would not have one. They are very convenient, but costly in my opinion.

 

[Rozzie]

Quote:
You may have misunderstood my posts.

I was not talking about four and five year old children in my posts. I did, however, reference teaching young adults to think through such things and make decisions on their own. Being able to think through WHY we do things the way we do them, and why we do what we do is part of being an adult. This is what I'm advocating. I take this concept further than some people, however, and advocate teaching teens and young adults to question why society functions the way it does. I don't believe in tradition for tradition's sake, or conforming to a status quo.

Wearing a baseball cap inside or choosing a particular fork is not a moral issue. It is a conformity issue. No real harm will come to anyone if a person does not remove a baseball cap when inside a building. The only potential harm is that someone may choose to be upset or offended by the fact that someone would be so "uncouth" as to wear a hat inside the restaurant.

I'm not in any way advocating wearing filthy clothes / hats into a fancy restaurant. An exploration of whether or not restaurants and other events should have restrictions on clothing styles that prohibit people who don't have / can't afford those clothing styles from entering the restaurant would be a topic for a different thread. (For example, the real reason behind such rules can be an issue of income class segregation, especially in more moderately priced restaurants.)

What constitutes good and bad manners is a set of societal constructs. As society changes, these constructs will morph, as well. It isn't a moral issue at all. This whole issue -- and many like it -- seem to be more about the reluctance that people have to accepting change. Probably this is magnified now because our world has changed so fast since WW2. Our traditions and ways of life are changing rapidly. This is bound to cause a degree of discomfort for many people as they are forced to accept -- or at least coexist with -- constant change. Changing customs, traditions, etc. used to occur gradually over long periods of time, rather than within a single decade or two (or a few years).

 

[Tala]

Quote:
When my son was in elementary school, at the band concerts, the director began by lecturing the audience on concert manners. Okay, I kind of get the idea that stating certain types of activities should be avoided was not a bad thing. However, he made a huge deal about turning cell phones OFF, not just putting them on mute. Sorry, but he lost me with that one. If on mute, no one is aware (and thus disturbed) if a call is received, but later I can check to see if I missed a call. Turned off and once again, no one is disturbed, but there is no record of calls received during that time. Sorry, not happening.

Sorry , but you sound like my 15 yr old SD . If she can't have her phone then she freaks out . I would think that if you told your friends and family that you were going to be at your kids concert , then maybe they wouldn't call and then you wouldn't be so worried whose call you missed . Forgive me if I'm thinking wrong , but back in the day we didn't have cell phones....and I'm talking 15 yrs ago . Life is not going to end if you miss a few calls . What should be important is your kids concert , and supporting he/she . The reason for turning it off is simple...if you have it on mute or vibrate...then there's a good chance you might answer it and disturb others even if you answer and leave the room . What did we ever do without cell phones.....I'd like to find the inventor of them and .....well you know...............

Actually, there was a fire at my In-law's place about a month ago. MIL & FIL were unreachable because they were at one of the kid's concerts. Fortunately, somebody got a hold of SIL.
Stuff, happens.

 

[unionwirewoman]

Quote:
Sorry , but you sound like my 15 yr old SD . If she can't have her phone then she freaks out . I would think that if you told your friends and family that you were going to be at your kids concert , then maybe they wouldn't call and then you wouldn't be so worried whose call you missed . Forgive me if I'm thinking wrong , but back in the day we didn't have cell phones....and I'm talking 15 yrs ago . Life is not going to end if you miss a few calls . What should be important is your kids concert , and supporting he/she . The reason for turning it off is simple...if you have it on mute or vibrate...then there's a good chance you might answer it and disturb others even if you answer and leave the room . What did we ever do without cell phones.....I'd like to find the inventor of them and .....well you know...............

Actually, there was a fire at my In-law's place about a month ago. MIL & FIL were unreachable because they were at one of the kid's concerts. Fortunately, somebody got a hold of SIL.
Stuff, happens.

Just like it did years ago when there were no cell phones .

 

[Tala]

Quote:
Actually, there was a fire at my In-law's place about a month ago. MIL & FIL were unreachable because they were at one of the kid's concerts. Fortunately, somebody got a hold of SIL.
Stuff, happens.

Just like it did years ago when there were no cell phones .

Sure it did, but it's better if your stuff doesn't burn down. We COULD all go back to living in the dark ages...throw away the cell phones and start hauling water every morning. Outhouses anyone? I mean....

 

[woodmort]

I often wonder how my dad would feel today with all the cell phones. One of the reason he used to enjoy going golfing, hunting and fishing was to get away from the phones and clear his head. Nobody can do that any more.

 

[ranchhand]

Quote:
I can. I chose to quit using one several years ago and don't regret it at all. That thing nagged me day and night. Now, if I'm not reachable? Oh well, I'll find out sooner or later what the "big deal" was. Usually it's a pretty small deal.

As far as wearing baseball caps indoors? I guess I'm old fashioned, I think they look dorky, no matter which direction the bill is facing. DH wears them to work every day. Sometimes he takes it off when he comes in, sometimes he doesn't. But never fail, when dinner comes out, he removes it. And he'd never wear it in a restaurant, be it classy or not. He knows how unattractive they are. He wears it to keep the sun out of his eyes. Not many places have the sun inside.

 

[Carols Clucks]

So what do you all think of this.

I have a friend who had a fantastic head of hair, he was quite proud of it. Unfortunately, out of all his brothers, he is the lucky one that went bald first. And a couple of his brothers love teasing him about it. He HATES taking his cap off. I mean HATES it, he would have worn a cap to his sons wedding if the could have. He always was a nice clean cap and makes sure the hair that is left looks neat and tidy under that cap.

I know he also feels uncomfortable in a nice restaurant because he has his hat on, but take the hat off and he is also uncomfortable.


What would you suggest?

 

[unionwirewoman]

Quote:
You may have misunderstood my posts.

I was not talking about four and five year old children in my posts. I did, however, reference teaching young adults to think through such things and make decisions on their own. Being able to think through WHY we do things the way we do them, and why we do what we do is part of being an adult. This is what I'm advocating. I take this concept further than some people, however, and advocate teaching teens and young adults to question why society functions the way it does. I don't believe in tradition for tradition's sake, or conforming to a status quo.

Wearing a baseball cap inside or choosing a particular fork is not a moral issue. It is a conformity issue. No real harm will come to anyone if a person does not remove a baseball cap when inside a building. The only potential harm is that someone may choose to be upset or offended by the fact that someone would be so "uncouth" as to wear a hat inside the restaurant.

I'm not in any way advocating wearing filthy clothes / hats into a fancy restaurant. An exploration of whether or not restaurants and other events should have restrictions on clothing styles that prohibit people who don't have / can't afford those clothing styles from entering the restaurant would be a topic for a different thread. (For example, the real reason behind such rules can be an issue of income class segregation, especially in more moderately priced restaurants.)

What constitutes good and bad manners is a set of societal constructs. As society changes, these constructs will morph, as well. It isn't a moral issue at all. This whole issue -- and many like it -- seem to be more about the reluctance that people have to accepting change. Probably this is magnified now because our world has changed so fast since WW2. Our traditions and ways of life are changing rapidly. This is bound to cause a degree of discomfort for many people as they are forced to accept -- or at least coexist with -- constant change. Changing customs, traditions, etc. used to occur gradually over long periods of time, rather than within a single decade or two (or a few years).

I have no problem changing when the change is for a better future . I do have a problem with "old traditions " being tossed out the door because they are no longer "useful" . I also have a problem with those no longer useful traditions not being replaced with any other etiquitte . If we continue on this path of disregarding traditions , and not having anything replace or substitute them , where are we left ? I mind is a terrible thing to waste... but a mind that is constantly wondering why we do things the way we do will eventually lead to a world of people who ask "why " , instead of digging in and getting the job done . I ask why all of the time , but there are certain things a person just can't control . I do believe your ideas have some merit , but where would we be if everyone who worked , was a student , or just plain exists asked why all of the time ?. A world without purpose is what it would be . I do believe that as society "morphs" it does affect our morals . Just because our world is changing rapidly , it doesn't mean that we have to lose everything that has been taught to us . If you looked at it from the perspective you have.....than all of the native americans that are alive today would never know any of there traditions , beliefs , or culture . Isn't that a sad thing to lose ? We are already losing so much of it ( yes I said we ) that most natives don't know the first thing about any of it . Why do people in general have to evolve so much , just to lose everything ? Good debate....you seem to be a very intelligent person with good points that I don't agree with . I love America !

 

[unionwirewoman]

Quote:
Learning that life is ever changing and that no one really cares if there is a bald person in the room . It could be worse for him , he could have been burned so severely that he has no nose or ears left . Even people who are in that situation learn to love themselves enough to enjoy their lives . My hubby is bald , and if I do say so myself , he is one handsome bald guy !