Spontaneous Dog attack??

[centrarchid]

Some of us have been involved in this for a good while and by default have used dogs inherently with high prey drive. Such dogs often have a have a primary use totally unrelated to poultry although that does not rule out non-aggressive interactions. A good hunting or guard dog does not have to kill a chicken when opportunity presents itself in order to be good at its primary use. When many are used for hunting, even for birds, the dogs need to stay after proper game and not go on trash. For dogs I am used to using; poultry, deer, and mice are trash so they are expected to be ignored. Dogs that go after trash need further training and if you are not able to get job done then you get rid of dog or give up on its ability as a hunter. Genetics are a factor but the trainers abilities are at least as important. The training is also not just some generic skill. Training for different activities especially involving other animals involves different type of effort than involved with obedience, showing, and being aggressive to humans and each of those latter activities are also different.

Get control over you dogs so they can slow down and control their instincts.

 

[ChickensRDinos]

Quote:
The advice that I gave is specific to the OP's question and the information she provided which DOES NOT describe a high prey drive dog. I really do not understand why you feel the need to personally confront me over a point that is not even relevant to the thread. I made a suggestion to someone who was asking for suggestions and qualified that suggestion with the fact that there are no guarantees. Based on the OP's situation I really feel like my advice is not in any way out of line and I never said they had done a bad job. Had the OP described a different situation I may have offered differ advice. No two paragraphs of advice is going to be relevant for all dogs in all situations.

It is MY pet peeve that very frequently when someone asks for dog help on this forum the first two posts tend to be a variation on "taste for blood" and this is never going to work. For a dog that has made one mistake and shown no or few other problem signs to suggest that someone just give up because their animal is somehow an incurrable blood thirsty beast after ONE incident is fear mongering and ridiculous. It is completely unfair to the dog to make that assumption. It is at least worth a try.

I don't know anything about your dog, your situation or your training methods and was not offering you advice. I am not sure why anyone would ever suggest not trying to work with a dog to improve a situation. I believe that every dog can always benefit from continued training. No person or dog is perfect. Sure very difficult dogs exist but these are the exception not the rule and the OP in no way indicates that this is her situation. This sounds like a dog that could be successful to me. I was trying to be positive.

 

[SavageDestiny]

Some of us have been involved in this for a good while and by default have used dogs inherently with high prey drive. Such dogs often have a have a primary use totally unrelated to poultry although that does not rule out non-aggressive interactions. A good hunting or guard dog does not have to kill a chicken when opportunity presents itself in order to be good at its primary use. When many are used for hunting, even for birds, the dogs need to stay after proper game and not go on trash. For dogs I am used to using; poultry, deer, and mice are trash so they are expected to be ignored. Dogs that go after trash need further training and if you are not able to get job done then you get rid of dog or give up on its ability as a hunter. Genetics are a factor but the trainers abilities are at least as important. The training is also not just some generic skill. Training for different activities especially involving other animals involves different type of effort than involved with obedience, showing, and being aggressive to humans and each of those latter activities are also different.

Get control over you dogs so they can slow down and control their instincts.

Get control over my dogs. Right. I suppose I'll go tell my dog unfriendly Pit Bull that is able to do dog sports like agility off leash around other dogs because of all the work I've put into her that I need better control over her.

Quote:
My problem is that in your very first post, you call it "simply a matter of training" as if the OP can wave a magic training wand and have a perfect dog. This dog is just coming in to maturity, we have no idea what level of drive he will have or how intent he will be. He has already killed birds even though he previously showed no signs, which is a bit of an alarm bell since he is just entering maturity. And yes, it IS harder to break them of bad habits if they have already done the "bad" thing.

Further, dogs are not robots. They are predators with instincts that can override training, no matter how good. There is no such thing as "perfect recall" or a dog that has killed chickens ever being TRULY safe around them. Because dogs are living, breathing creatures, not machines we can program to our will and expect perfect obedience 100% of the time. It isn't fair to the dog to expect that and it isn't fair to owners to tell them otherwise.

I DID say in my first post in this thread to try working with the dog. I'm just presenting a more realistic view that, even with training, they shouldn't expect their dog to be completely trustworthy.

 

[centrarchid]

The mindset you exhibit suggest you value general aggressiveness in your dog's and are aggressive in your own right. Pit bulls are very capable dogs but some owners are very key to the bad rep the breed currently enjoys. The dog aggressiveness very easily slips into human aggressive. Keep reminding yourself of that when your management makes for a.livestock killer that gets you into trouble when it trashes on a human, probably a child.

 

[blucoondawg]

High prey drive does not equal impossible to train. Centrarchid has experience using a very high prey drive bird dog to protect chickens, I have a German wirehaired pointer and know first hand the prey drive they have, I also know that they are a very highly intelligent and easily trained, the dog I currently have is the smartest dog I've ever had and also has the highest prey drive I've ever seen, far higher prey drive than any hound I have ever had, and I have no doubt I will be able to train her that the chickens aren't her I tended prey animals. Also a dog doing something bad doesn't make it harder to train if that was the case house breaking a puppy would be impossible because they usually crap in the house many times before they learn that isn't acceptable. The key to training any dog is consistency and that is where most people fail, including myself, we don't stick with it long enough to expect the dog to learn the desired behavior then the regress back to doing whatever they want. I am not an expert dog handler but those who are very rarely fail at training dogs.

 

[SavageDestiny]

The mindset you exhibit suggest you value general aggressiveness in your dog's and are aggressive in your own right. Pit bulls are very capable dogs but some owners are very key to the bad rep the breed currently enjoys. The dog aggressiveness very easily slips into human aggressive. Keep reminding yourself of that when your management makes for a.livestock killer that gets you into trouble when it trashes on a human, probably a child.

I value the high drive in my dogs that allows them to excel at sports. Drive does not equal aggression. For the record, my dog unfriendly Pit Bull is actually fine with my chickens and adores my cats. She was also fine with my rats, ferrets, hermit crabs, and ignores my friend's rabbits and guinea pigs. My sighthound mix, who is dog friendly, is not safe with chickens, rabbits, etc. Both are people friendly, and in fact the Pit Bull you're worried about "slipping" into human aggression is 8 years old and so docile with people she allowed our vet to remove a cancerous tumor while the power was out with only a local anesthetic. Sat still the entire time, not even stressed.

It is LAUGHABLE that you actually think dog aggression "slips" into human aggression. The two are completely different. Prey drive, small animal aggression, and dog aggression are all separate things from human aggression (and from each other). A dog can be so DA it wants to kill every dog it sees and still be a total mush with people. Sure, a dog can be both DA and HA, but that means it has both types of aggression- one does not equal the other.

It's like saying, "Oh, my Greyhound likes to chase down rabbits! Next it will be a CHILD!"

Ridiculous.