Standard Cornish vs. Cornish-X

[SteveH]

I'm grateful the moderators have let this thread go on . I'll bet the OP is getting all the info he wants ; maybe a little more

A few questions to help him and I learn :

1. Are the HQ Cornish faster maturing than the SQ lines ?

2. Will feeding the high protien diet to straight Cornish grow them out any quicker ?

3. Will growing the Cornish X out slower on regular chick starter and restricted amounts result in an increased dark meat to white meat ratio ? { I'm a dark meat lover

}

4. Jeff , are those Cornish X pullets getting heavier quarters than they had in the pics ?

5. Do varities like the Hubbard White Mountain or McMurray's Cornish Roaster look more like a White Rock or a White Cornish ?

 

[paduanchook]

Gee whiz! Why so defensive? Some of has stated that Cornish x is
not for us, why keep telling us it is a great bird? For you it may be great
but for us it is not. I work alot of hours and am gone alot and depend
on my daughter to help me take care of them. So I like a more self sustaining
bird with more natural self preservation instincts and have had good luck
with them even when they didn't get the attention they deserved. Cornish x would
not make it because they require to much care, ergo, I don't like them
they don't serve everybodys needs. And I also with my kids like a less boring
bird. So you can have them all, I don't want them

 

[jaku]

Quote:
I don't think anyone is being defensive. What good is an internet forum without debate? I'll also second what SteveH said about the mods allowing the discussion to continue. It's annoying when threads are closed at the first hint of disagreement.

 

[djmb74]

Someone please buy this man an electric car and some solar panels!

I'm just playing actually hearing the back in forth of the parties is very educating!



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[Buster52]

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Any bird that requires a non-renewable resource in order to be sustained is unsustainable. Your birds are coated with oil every time you order a new batch.

So do you save all of the seeds from your garden vegetables every year and plant them exclusively the next?

I am still building my garden, but do save the seeds for plants I want to continue with, and only order open pollinated heirloom seeds for things I want to add so I can also save those. Once we have the garden we want, growing all the varieties we want, we will no long import seeds.

And we use the Grow Biointensive method of gardening, which doesn't even require external inputs, using only stuff from my own place for fertilizer and compost. It is a 99% sustainable system once it is fully developed.

And we water it with water from our pond, which all comes from rain.

Nothing is completely self-sustainable, but it is a goal we work toward.

 

[Buster52]

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Depends on your goals and your personal perspective.

 

[Bossroo]

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Exactly my point. There is no need because that is not their purpose. It is not what they were bred for. They were bred to be short lived big meat producers. That is what makes them unhealthy to grow to adulthood. There is no need for them to survive past a young age, so longevity is not what is selected for. The industry doesn't care if they can live past the slaughtering period. Therefore, it makes no sense to suggest they will be healthy beyond that point.

So, in the end I get back to where I started when you objected. Part of the reason I don't want to raise them is because I don't consider them to be healthy animals.

Joel Salatin has raised hundreds of thousands of CX in his years. He calls them the "race cars of the chicken world," meaning you drive them hard and you drive them fast because you don't care if you get 200,000 miles out of them. They aren't built for it. And that comes to me from a friend of mine who just came back from a year's apprenticeship with him, working side by side with him every day for a year.

That's fine for Joel, fine for you, and fine for my friend, but it is not fine for me.

ETA
On hybrid vigor, actually when you consider the fact that one side contributes the large frame, while the other contributes the fast growth rate, it is easy to see how that could make a huge difference in the health of the offspring from that of the parents.

If your IDOL Joel Salatin raises the Cornish X into the hundreds of thousands and makes a fine living doing so, Why oh WHY do you continue to bash and vilify them when you haven't even raised a single ONE ??? Does assumtion get in your way of reality ??? After all BILLIONS of Cornish X are raised annually !!!

 

[Buster52]

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Because I think he is wrong. I also think it is inconsistent of him to raise them. In Michael Pollan's The Omnivore's Dilemma, he makes a big deal out of not shipping Pollan a steak because of the carbon footprint. This impressed Pollan so much he made the pilgrimage from his home in the SF Bay area to Swoope VA and spend a week or two working with Salatin on his place. Meanwhile, Salatin bashed industrial practices and the food system that ships food all over the place, then raises the quintessential industrial bird and has it shipped in ever season. He even speaks of losses in the range Jeff reports of 10 to 15% due to health reasons.

On that regard, I'm much more in alignment with the views of Tim and Liz Young of Nature's Harmony Farm in Georgia.

I will be raising a batch of CX this spring, along with some Freedom Rangers (which I also don't believe is a sustainable bird, by the way) just to see them for myself. I have mixed feelings about that, since for me it is wrong and inhumane to raise them, but feel I should for my own education. They will be raised in separate tractors from some Buckeyes and Delawares and my Dark Cornish, and I will closely observe all five breeds for their strengths and weaknesses.

I toyed with the idea of letting half of them grow to adulthood, but decided that was really pushing it, ethically. I feel guilty enough ordering them as it is.

 

[Brunty_Farms]

You know... we are a good group over here in the meat forum. I think everyone hear respects each others decisions to do what they do. I don't think anyone is truly getting defensive, but most of us have seen the same post over and over again... and it's tough to swallow especially when negative remarks or false assumptions are being told. It gives the newbie a false representation of either breed.... hybrid or DP. I sound like a broken record but there is a place for both... it's hard for some to see that.

But... to let everyone know I do appreciate a good debate. At the end of the day, I still respect everybody and I can go on without any grudges... that's kinda why I hang here in the meat bird forum because most of you have the same respect. If a thread got locked up every day here, I probably wouldn't be here....

 

[Brunty_Farms]

But I respect others rights and opinions to raise them.
I also believe we are what we eat, to eat a lazy, unnatural bird does
affect us, I choose to eat birds that are strong, full of vitality.

No one is being defensive... I'm not sure if you have raised cornish x's and if you did maybe you had a bad experience. But if they are raised out on pasture at a young age they are extremely aggressive foragers. I've showed this pic time and time again so It's tough to make an argument that they are lazy. Tim G said it perfectly... if you feed them and don't give them exercise they will get fat and lazy... but that is not the case if you give them the opportunity to forage.

You have to understand when you make comments like the one you did.... your going to get a lot of people telling you how they are not lazy. Which they are not. However if you would have simply said, I like the DP roosters due to your reasons and left the negative remarks about the cornish x out... everything would have been fine.

I respect your decision, I respect your reasons more than others but it's only fair if you respect mine. I'm going to defend them because of the amount of work that I go through to make sure that the lives that the cornish x's that I raise only get the best. A fat lazy bird doesn't work for me either... I wouldn't have them if they were fat and lazy. Now a thick, strong, meaty bird that is full of vitality is something that I'm ready to defend. I'm not trying to convince you to raise cornish x's, I could care less what you raise. But, I want to make sure the next newbie that comes through to have the right representation of each breed. It's not fair for someone new to come on here and hear all of the negative remarks about the cornish x's (or DP breeds for that matter) and make a decision on false information from people that have had bad experiences or worse yet, have never even raised them before. I think that's the worst when people think they know everything about a particular breed and they have never even raised them.... all books and the internet. That is totally not fair to make judgements on something by what you have read or heard. Especially about a breed that has this much controversy.

In the end, I go my way and you go yours... I just would like it to be a clean slate for the next person that decides to make the plunge into raising their own birds for meat.​