Standardbred Leghorn Thread

[Geckolady]

@Geckolady I've attached the first Leghorn book that @ChicKat mentions. It's in the public domain, I guess. Never occurred to me to upload free books to Amazon and sell them, LOL!

I find it quite useful and while it is old and what wins at shows shifts back and forth a bit due to the preferences of influential judges and breeders, it's useful to see these things discussed.

Hmm, scratch that on the attachment. Too large. I'll look for it hosted online somewhere, but until then if anyone wants to PM me their email address I'll send it through that way.

In the meanwhile, here's another excellent book with similar qualities. I especially appreciate the images on page 31 in evaluating toplines and tail angles.

The Leghorns: Brown-White-Buff-Black-Duckwing by America's Leading Authorities

It is interesting that all of these books have nearly identical titles but these two, at least, have rather distinctive information, though I'm sure there is some overlap.

Edited to add an online version of the book that was too large to attach: https://catalog.hathitrust.org/Record/009607764

Here's "The Brown Leghorn: How to Mate, Rear and Judge Them"

And here's a WHOLE LIST of old Leghorn books that you can read online for free! They cover every possible topic from genetics, to history to the practical things like breeding and keeping them.

Enjoy!

I tried to add these to the first post for quick reference, but I can no longer edit that post?! Ugh. I feel like this thread is ruined now.

Thank you!!! You are so helpful. My Leghorns aren't quite fully grown yet, and one is just starting to lay eggs at the rate of one a day so far. (Got my first two yesterday, but I didn't check the nest boxes the day before.) This would be her third day laying. The other two are a few months younger.

In the spring I'd like to raise some chicks. I'm thinking of getting a broody hen of another breed that lays eggs that are not white. Then I'll know which eggs are hers and pull them out to eat, and place the Leghorn eggs under her for her to raise. I'd want a breed that's not large enough to want to beat up on my hens. What do you think?

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

Thank you!!! You are so helpful. My Leghorns aren't quite fully grown yet, and one is just starting to lay eggs at the rate of one a day so far. (Got my first two yesterday, but I didn't check the nest boxes the day before.) This would be her third day laying. The other two are a few months younger.

In the spring I'd like to raise some chicks. I'm thinking of getting a broody hen of another breed that lays eggs that are not white. Then I'll know which eggs are hers and pull them out to eat, and place the Leghorn eggs under her for her to raise. I'd want a breed that's not large enough to want to beat up on my hens. What do you think?

As far as I know, Cochins, specifically bantams, and silkies tend to be the broodiest and excellent mothers.

I'm personally cultivating an ugly little batch of Plymouth rock bantams for the purpose, supposedly, but honestly... i do like the fact that I can set eggs whenever I want with an incubator. I guess I think of the banties as "backup" as well as eye candy, mostly.

I'd love to see photos of your birds and learn more about them. I am kind of obsessed with barred patterns and would love to acquire a few barred/cuckoo Leghorns without going all the way back to hatchery stock!

 

[ChicKat]

I was surprised when I first started showing my Leghorns. I thought a lighter weight bird would be an advantage, but no the judges preferred the beefier ones and they remarked the backs were too short so I started breeding my longer backs birds.

Perhaps a bit OT, however, the genetic relationship of long-back and higher-weight also extends to other species. For a decade on a ranch I worked with registered beef cattle and long back = heavier livestock.

Circle back to the SOP differences in weight and in show winners for chickens....The ones that I've seen win shows are seemingly massive. Judges like/love BIG birds.

Looking at some of the older pictures in some of those books from the early 1900's the illustrations show birds with higher tail angles. High tail angle - shorter back and vice versa. JMO

From one of the books. Male - tail angle too high? Nice comb. Female - Tail more of a fan than a point and comb flopped over the eye.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Thank you!!! You are so helpful. My Leghorns aren't quite fully grown yet, and one is just starting to lay eggs at the rate of one a day so far. (Got my first two yesterday, but I didn't check the nest boxes the day before.) This would be her third day laying. The other two are a few months younger.

In the spring I'd like to raise some chicks. I'm thinking of getting a broody hen of another breed that lays eggs that are not white. Then I'll know which eggs are hers and pull them out to eat, and place the Leghorn eggs under her for her to raise. I'd want a breed that's not large enough to want to beat up on my hens. What do you think?

Cochins are usually good moms

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Perhaps a bit OT, however, the genetic relationship of long-back and higher-weight also extends to other species. For a decade on a ranch I worked with registered beef cattle and long back = heavier livestock.

Circle back to the SOP differences in weight and in show winners for chickens....The ones that I've seen win shows are seemingly massive. Judges like/love BIG birds.

Looking at some of the older pictures in some of those books from the early 1900's the illustrations show birds with higher tail angles. High tail angle - shorter back and vice versa. JMO
View attachment 2492474
From one of the books. Male - tail angle too high? Nice comb. Female - Tail more of a fan than a point and comb flopped over the eye.

Why are there black feathers?

 

[ChicKat]

Why are there black feathers?

Oh - in that illustration I think it is showing Exchequer Leghorns.... LOL I was focusing on the back and tail and didn't even think about plumage pattern.

 

[JacinLarkwell]

Oh - in that illustration I think it is showing Exchequer Leghorns.... LOL I was focusing on the back and tail and didn't even think about plumage pattern.

Ohhhh, okay that makes sense

 

[RoostersAreAwesome]

There's a breeder Jacob Bates,bred and showed "Golden Leghorns"... We corresponded for a short time he started with bantams and moved on to LF.
He said LF, same as bantams,he would have a Silver rooster over a Brown or Light Brown hen.
He said the formula was simple.Just follow it.
He's since moved onto Ducks I think,but still breeds other chickens I believe.
He explained that what I called Gold Duckwing Leghorns, the APA were calling them "Golden Leghorns, but they look exactly the same.
Also,
from someone else's writing,and older book.Can't remember the title.It read to pick your best individuals after first or second matings,and set up two pens...best brother and sister early on, bring it in tight,again,best to have two pens running at the same time,preferably the foundation stock should be related- both pens-to each other. Then if you have two individuals that are close to where you want them,one from each pen,put them into a pen together. Offspring should be brought in tight as well.Hopefully,you should have close to what you want when this pair starts to produce.
@The Moonshiner ...would like to hear your opinion on this scenario.

It sounds like that breeding would produce gold/silver split roosters and silver hens, like golden duckwing OEGBs, which aren’t true breeding. Or eventually it could produce silvers with a lot of autosomal red.

 

[Geckolady]

As far as I know, Cochins, specifically bantams, and silkies tend to be the broodiest and excellent mothers.

I'm personally cultivating an ugly little batch of Plymouth rock bantams for the purpose, supposedly, but honestly... i do like the fact that I can set eggs whenever I want with an incubator. I guess I think of the banties as "backup" as well as eye candy, mostly.

I'd love to see photos of your birds and learn more about them. I am kind of obsessed with barred patterns and would love to acquire a few barred/cuckoo Leghorns without going all the way back to hatchery stock!

LOL, as you wish. I am a lousy photographer, but these pictures were taken at the show and right after they came home. They're bigger now, and the largest/oldest pullet who just started to lay eggs's comb droops off to the right. The second largest/oldest one's is beginning to do the same. It was just yesterday that I realized that this is normal and my chickens aren't weird that way.

I almost hate to post pictures, because their breeder was adamant that I wasn't to show them because they couldn't win, and there were issues with their coloring. When the standard arrives, I'll have a better idea of what those issues are. He decided to bring them to the show and sell them, because there was probably someone out there who just wanted a nice little flock to lay eggs in the backyard. That's me! But even though they may not be colored right, chances are good that they're still better than the average hatchery chickens. I hope. He said something about a bird or birds that he bought off of someone that didn't produce what he wanted, and there four were the result. The cockerel is a youngster, too.

 

[HaikuHeritageFarm]

Perhaps a bit OT, however, the genetic relationship of long-back and higher-weight also extends to other species. For a decade on a ranch I worked with registered beef cattle and long back = heavier livestock.

Circle back to the SOP differences in weight and in show winners for chickens....The ones that I've seen win shows are seemingly massive. Judges like/love BIG birds.

Looking at some of the older pictures in some of those books from the early 1900's the illustrations show birds with higher tail angles. High tail angle - shorter back and vice versa. JMO
View attachment 2492474
From one of the books. Male - tail angle too high? Nice comb. Female - Tail more of a fan than a point and comb flopped over the eye.

I was musing over the differences between these photos and what I see winning now as well. The judges are definitely favoring the longer backs and lower tails in females, but the males still tend to look mostly like this IMO, though obviously heavier. The European Italianer type leghorns still look like this.

It is worth noting the standards calls for a MEDIUM-length back.

I actually think that this hen has a great top-line and tail but her width and fleshing throughout her body is disappointing. I think her back is a bit longer than what's pictured in the photo from the book.

Here's a young brown pullet from Bud, she has a very long back!

Long backs = lower tails. It looks great on the hens, IMO, but it really compromises the males.

Here's three boys from the same hatch as the above pullet:

The boy above is currently my pick... but really he has the worse color. He is the beefiest male of the batch.

This is my #2 pick. Something got a hold of his tail and it looks awful, but I think he might be a winner once that tail comes in. Better color than male #1. Worse comb.

This male I tagged as my cull of the three based on type and a white primary flight feather. He has a much more "classic" silhouette but based on what's popular now... he's rangier and lighter built that the other boys with a shorter back and higher tail.

Now that I look at him again... he might be the best match for my extra long girls. The other boys' tails are dropping quite a bit with their length of back.