stick or twist?

[Perris]

Recently to stop him fighting with the dominant roo, I confined my subordinate roo, with two hens for company and as potential breeders. I assume this has to continue for sub roo, at least for the foreseeable future. The rest of the flock continue to roam the property, and periodically pass by and engage (albeit through the barrier) with those confined. But my son today observed that this confinement is unfair on the two hens, who very clearly want out, and suggested periodic swapping with two others, to share the burden around. Can those with experience of such a situation offer guidance please? I don't think there will be any reintegration issues for the hens coming back if I do this, but I wonder about the disruption to the flock hierarchies and/or the effect on sub roo, who finally has his own hens and is much calmer than he was. I think my son has a point, but I don't know what to do for the best. I would very much appreciate some suggestions.

 

[MountainWoman73]

Nothing wrong with confinement in the short term, but I don't see it as a long term solution. I would either make a second large fenced area, or make a decision about which rooster to keep. Whenever I end up with 2 roosters I pick the one that's nicest to the hens, and stew pot the other. Then again, lots of people keep multiple roosters for breeding purposes, so it kind of depends on why you're doing it. A good rule is that you should have 5-10 hens per rooster, depending how agressive he is about mating. Very gentle roosters can have smaller flocks, but having too few hens per roo makes them stressed. And of course, 10 sqft of run area and 3-4 sqft of coop area per bird.

 

[Perris]

thanks @MountainWoman73 ; I hatched him for the sake of a broody, and have kept him to sire some new blue (and olive) egg layers (he's an Araucana) and I fear he may have to go the way you suggest sooner or later. He has some good points, e.g. he was a great surrogate dad to last summer's chicks, but all the hens really prefer the dominant roo (and why wouldn't they? he's the handsome chap in my avatar!). I have 11 hens currently. The enclosure is 12' diameter and moved to fresh grass as required, so I think we're OK on both those fronts, but it is not really a long term solution for him. Would you rotate the hens in the meantime?

 

[MountainWoman73]

thanks @MountainWoman73 ; I hatched him for the sake of a broody, and have kept him to sire some new blue (and olive) egg layers (he's an Araucana) and I fear he may have to go the way you suggest sooner or later. He has some good points, e.g. he was a great surrogate dad to last summer's chicks, but all the hens really prefer the dominant roo (and why wouldn't they? he's the handsome chap in my avatar!). I have 11 hens currently. The enclosure is 12' diameter and moved to fresh grass as required, so I think we're OK on both those fronts, but it is not really a long term solution for him. Would you rotate the hens in the meantime?

 

[MountainWoman73]

Maybe. If you rotate them and they come in contact with both roosters, you may not know who's fathering any potential chicks for a while. I know eggs can be fertile for 2-4 weeks after mating. But if you're not setting any eggs now, go for it.

 

[Perris]

thanks; that's helpful.

 

[Ridgerunner]

In my opinion what's best depends on your goals. Whatever your goals you have several different options. There are always different ways to do things. You said potential breeders so I'll assume you want to keep both males.

On the 5 to 10 thing. You have him with two females right now. How is that going for you? I like to base what I do on what I see, not what people like me tell you over the internet as to what works and what doesn't.

Since you mentioned breeding, I'll go through this. It takes an egg about 25 hours to go through a hen's internal egg making factory. It can be fertilized only during the first few minutes of that journey. That means if a mating takes place on a Monday, Monday's egg will not be fertile from that mating. Tuesday's egg might or might not be, depending on timing. Wednesday's will be. A rooster does not mate every hen in the flock every day, but he doesn't have to. In the last part of mating after the rooster hops off, the hen stands up, fluffs her feathers, and shakes. This shake gets the sperm in a special container where it can remain viable for three weeks or more. This means that of you want a specific rooster to be the father you need to keep the hen away from any other rooster for at least three weeks, four would be better. This might help you formulate a plan when it comes time to hatch eggs.

You can try alternating roosters with the flock, see how that goes. Some people do that. If you keep two hens separated for the one locked in keep an eye on that. That may work or it may not. The rooster with the flock will be happy while he is there. The one locked up probably won't be while he is locked up. My goals are not to manage the sex life of my roosters to keep them happy, My goals are to keep the entire flock as peaceful as I can and still meet my reasons for having chickens. I choose for the benefit of the overall flock, not one individual chicken.

If you have the facilities you can let one flock with rooster out to range one day, let the other flock out the next. Or rotate flocks on a weekly basis. But rotate flocks , not roosters.

Not sure how old that subordinate is or how much room you actually have. It is possible he is still more cockerel than mature rooster. With two males in a flock they will know which one is dominant. Sometimes they fight to the death or until one is seriously injured, at which point the other will probably kill him. But sometimes they will reach an accommodation on how to work together to protect the flock. Often this involves each rooster selecting how own territory and the hens deciding which male they want to be with but there can be exceptions to how this works out. I've seen two roosters be best buddies and hang together with the flock, but that is really rare. In general, the more room they have the more likely they are to reach an accommodation. But they get to this point by fighting. Often it doesn't take that long for one to decide he's better off running away than to keep fighting. These can change from fighting to running away and chasing, but he needs enough room to run away and get away. So one of your options is to let them fight it out. Some people choose this.

In what I think your situation and goals are, my preference would be to keep the one forever locked in a pen and coop with the hens you want to be with him. Let the others roam. See how that works for you. I think it has the best chance of keeping a peaceful flock and should be the easiest for you to manage. I consider you as more important in this process as the chickens, plus I really do not think the chickens even come close to understanding the concept of "fair".

 

[Perris]

thanks for the thoughtful reply @Ridgerunner ; the subordinate is just coming 2, and his relationship with the dominant has varied throughout that time, but until about 2 weeks ago he ran away and there were no fights. They roam over > an acre. Then recently he decided to stand his ground, and I have seen the pair of them variously attacking and chasing each other to near exhaustion. When blood was drawn I decided to intervene (for fear they would fight till one died) and confined the sub. The sub is not popular with the hens, all of whom prefer the dominant, who is a very good roo (unlike the sub, and despite his being brought up in the flock with the dom setting an excellent example).
At the moment I think it's going well; the confined hens have stopped trying to escape, and I have seen their occasional brief and quiet mating by the sub; he doesn't have to chase or ambush them anymore so I think he's happier; he's certainly a lot calmer. The flock as a whole is a lot calmer. So it's working for me thus far

 

[Mrs. K]

or you might alternate days, somedays let one flock out, other days let the big flock out.

I would keep the same hens with the same rooster. Chickens really hate change.

 

[Perris]

or you might alternate days, somedays let one flock out, other days let the big flock out

thanks for the suggestion, but that isn't an option here as I only have the one run, and it's too small for the main flock. However, you raise a good point about keeping the same hens with him rather than swapping them periodically. Thinking about it, it may be kinder to the hens to stick. I often read this phrase about chickens hating change, but I've never actually read anything offering evidence for it, and I've not personally witnessed behaviour that supports it. For example, the hens' reaction to being confined is best explained, I think, as a desire to be free, rather than a disliking of their change of circumstances. And watching a broody ranging with chicks is a month long exercise in seeing youngsters being introduced to new things. Do you know if there is an accessible study on chickens and change?