sticking to free range & avoiding laying feed

[ChickenCanoe]

mine are molting right now, same as my parrots - it's just that time of year. my chickens have yet to reach maturity.

Usually chickens molt their second autumn and each one thereafter. If they're not full grown, is it a full molt or an adolescent molt?

 

[witchwriter]

they are 16+ weeks and the molt seems to just be their head and neck - their chest and body/tail has no pin feathers coming in. my parrots molt 2x a year - spring/fall. i realize august isn't fall but it isn't always in august they molt.

 

[gjensen]

To the comments on a lack of luster in the feathers, and smaller size is an equivalent to deficiencies in the diet and stunted growth. I do not see any good in that, and I have a hard time with the idea that this makes them healthier.

That is a fair comment. I’ll try to explain what I was talking about. My actual comment was not that a lack of luster means they are healthy. My comment was

They won’t get as big and may not have as shiny feathers as chickens fed a specific diet to give them shiny feathers or big bodies

I could have phrased that better. Some people feed things specifically to make the chickens look better. One trick to get shiny feathers is to drizzle oil on their feed. That will shine the feathers up but I don’t consider those feathers shiny because of good health. I consider that artificially making them look like they have a healthy sheen.

What some people consider stunted growth may be more their normal growth. Artificially feeding them a high protein diet to make them grow bigger may be more unnatural than letting them reach their natural growth size. There is certainly opinion in this one.

What chickens need is a balanced diet. That means oil, fiber, minerals, protein, and many other things. Feeding them too much of a good thing is not necessarily a good thing. Good quality forage will provide those things. Very few people on this forum have really good quality forage and many that do can’t access it because of predator pressure.

For those that are lucky enough to have the conditions for their chickens to get good forage the chickens can do quite well on that forage. Part of that too is your individual goals. If you are raising chickens for show, no, that will not be sufficient to win ribbons at shows. That will require a special diet. If you are expecting a large egg every day then you need to feed them to support that kind of laying. They are unlikely to get enough on forage alone to support that, especially the large part of that. They can still lay pretty regularly, even most days, but the eggs won’t be as large. If you are wanting to rush them to butcher age, you need to feed them to meet that goal. If your goals are more around an average sized egg and average sized chickens and you have the conditions where they can forage for most of all of their feed they can do extremely well on that forage.

Yes they quickly deplete the resources over the area they range.

Could you explain your experience with this on high quality forage where they have the ability to range? I lived it. I grew up on a farm where the chickens fed themselves most months of the year. But they were totally free range. They had large areas to forage. They were not contained.

It is a false economy to think that their is any money saved, unless no money is spent at all.

I’m sorry. I don’t understand this comment at all.

Birds allowed to roost where they will, will disappear one by one until there is no more.

Most of our chickens roosted in the hen house, but some slept in trees year around. They did not disappear one by one until there is no more. We would go years between predator attacks. But a fox or dog would finally find our flock and have to be dealt with. Growing up, I remember one dog and one fox. That was not disappearing one by one.

Different people have different predator pressure. Chickens allowed to forage or roost without protection are certainly at risk. It is likely you will have losses at some time or another. I can’t truly free range here because too many people drop off dogs in the country. I have to keep them inside an electric netting or abandoned dogs would wipe me out. We don’t all have the same conditions any more than we have the same goals. Predators are a huge issue for most of us, but not all.

They are livestock that are raised for the production of meat an eggs.

Again I have trouble understanding exactly what you mean by this. You can find some bad apples in every barrel, but most people that raise livestock understand that an unhealthy animal does not produce. The norm is that people that raise “livestock” provide adequate food, water, protection from predators, and appropriate shelter. Calm contented animals produce best. Sick, mistreated, or underfed animals are not in anyone’s best interests. Taking care of “livestock” is normally a 24/7/365 job. You are all the time looking out for the health and well-being of that animal. It is a fulltime job.

We all have our own goals and our own ways to deal with these different issues. I know my ways won’t suit many other people. I’m not going to assume that my way is the only right way. There are many things that work.

This is not to debate, so bare with me.

The final size of the bird is limited by genetics, not feed. You can stunt their growth, but you cannot make them larger with their feed. You can see their potential realized, but cannot initiate a real change.

Yes, people add fat (oils) to their poultry's diet to condition their fowl. This represents something lacking in the diet. Fat quickly becomes rancid, so commercial bagged rations are often deficient. I do not get too worked over it myself. I throw them some hulled sunflower seeds periodically as a treat. For the most part, feather quality is also genetic. A poor diet can be a cause of dull, frayed feathers.

I will concede to the possibility to the right birds on the right place being able to rustle up much of their own. Chickens are survivors, and adaptable. Still EVERY location is deficient in at least a point, but more likely more than one. Here iron and calcium is the two big ones, but there are a few more. None of us live in the Garden of Eden.

Poultry will eat first what they need most. What they need the most of is ( in quantity) energy. Seeds fill that need, as does fruit etc. Poultry will quickly deplete an area of it's available palatable seeds. That is why the old timers threw them corn, wheat, etc. The succulent weeds, and sprouts that they like the most (need the most) goes first. The point is the environment becomes deficient in something. Yes, they will range farther and farther looking for what they need. They would become more and more feral. I guess if that is what is wanted, ok. Personally, I do not see it as good husbandry. That to me is purchasing them and having them fend for themselves.

My comments concerning the economy of it all, is that some believe that they are saving money by giving less. I guess that is fine as long that it is realized that there is less of a return. That is what I mean by a false economy. Our birds are the most profitable, when they receive closer to ideal care. They are genetically equipped to do so much, and if that potential is not realized, then that is profit is not realized. I cannot rationalize a desire to not see my birds realize their potential. I would rather have less birds reaching their potential than I would more birds underperforming.

I agree with your last point completely, but my point that you missed, is that they have a purpose. If that purpose is not fully realized then they are not at their best. My comments were to go with yours that you were satisfied with less and smaller eggs. I am not. I want my birds to do what they are able to do. I am not satisfied with any less.

My points were not to discredit your view. In reality, I do not think we are much different. The difference is that I am going to provide my birds a quality ration along with the freedom to range. That and I am going to secure them at night. I work too hard to feed them to the locals. I also want their range centered on their shelter. I do not care to wander the bushes and weeds looking for eggs, and wonder whether or not they are fresh.

I did not and do not want to debate. You are right, everyone is different. I offered an alternate view for the readers that are not involved in the discussion. I also offered an alternative to balance the extremes. That is feed them once per day (a balanced ration), in the morning or evening. Then let them range freely to forage what is available.
Personally, I like to keep the feeders full and open their door. Let them find their on balance. I prefer tis and my birds are always in excellent condition. Their potential is realized, and I fully benefit from what they have to offer. I may only save 25-30% of their feed costs, but I am not losing 25% of their potential production. Then I save little more by giving the garden and kitchen extras.

I just offered an alternative view.

 

[ECBW]

mine are molting right now, same as my parrots - it's just that time of year. my chickens have yet to reach maturity.

If you chickens have not reached maturity (6 months), they cannot be molting (around 1 to 2 yrs).

Some chickens have small wattles and combs (ie. ester eggers) and hard to tell the change. The wattles and combs will shrink and pale from normal. Coupled with the change in demeanor, you can tell if it is sick or molting (normal, nothing to worry). Change in feather condition could also indicate issues too. Type of poop is also another health indicator. Does anyone have a poop chart to show OP? There was one posted in the past.

 

[witchwriter]

If you chickens have not reached maturity (6 months), they cannot be molting (around 1 to 2 yrs).

Some chickens have small wattles and combs (ie. ester eggers) and hard to tell the change. The wattles and combs will shrink and pale from normal. Coupled with the change in demeanor, you can tell if it is sick or molting (normal, nothing to worry). Change in feather condition could also indicate issues too. Type of poop is also another health indicator. Does anyone have a poop chart to show OP? There was one posted in the past.

call it what you want but their head and necks are shedding feathers and new feathers are growing. i spent the better part of an hour cracking pin feathers on one of their heads the other evening. my girls are very healthy and their poop is normal according to the poop chart http://chat.allotment-garden.org/index.php?topic=17568.0

 

[witchwriter]

according to http://www.grit.com/animals/molting...lp-chickens-get-through-it.aspx#axzz39dSzUOOT it is a 2nd juvenile molt. you had me scared!

 

[gjensen]

according to http://www.grit.com/animals/molting...lp-chickens-get-through-it.aspx#axzz39dSzUOOT it is a 2nd juvenile molt. you had me scared!

Yes, they molt twice before they are in their adult set of plumage.

 

[ECBW]

Juvenile molts, they do have names for everything! Why not? How else do furballs change to fair feather fowls.

Looking at my 4-month-old pullets now, and the chicks in prior years, they do not have bald spots or odd behaviors, so it never raised concerns.

BTW, what is "cracking pin feathers on one of their heads"?

 

[ChickenCanoe]

...

BTW, what is "cracking pin feathers on one of their heads"?

I was wondering the same thing.

 

[enola]

There are a lot of things in this post I wonder about........