sticking to free range & avoiding laying feed

[witchwriter]

i haven't put my ladies on feed since we brought them home and they finished their starter feed. we rent a house in the midst of about 200 acres of which my girls stay within about a 3 acre range to forage. there are so many protein sources like frogs, lizards, bugs in general they are getting plenty of protein and are growing normally. my family thinks if i feed them laying feed they will magically start laying eggs. i can't make them understand it doesn't work that way.

we introduced cracked corn about 2 weeks ago and the ladies are not especially fond of it so today i started a sour mash hoping they will like it that way. i really want yellow/orange egg yolks i have explained til i am blue in the face that laying feed just has different vitamins to prepare them for laying and that they are getting all that from foraging.

anybody else the only one refusing to feed store bought vs. foraging and catching flack from your family and please share how you are handling it. my ladies are healthy with shiny coats and even a bit of sass. they are definitely not complaining other than preferring sunflower seed to cracked corn. I just don't want all the "extras" that come in processed feed because these gals will be meat birds after they stop producing eggs. i really don't want it in my eggs either. any suggestions would be great. thanks.

deb

 

[Ridgerunner]

What a lot of people that have not lived it don’t understand is that chickens can do a great job of feeding themselves if the quality of forage is good. That means different grasses and weeds, grass and weed seeds, all kinds of creepy crawlies and other fun things to chase, and rotting vegetative matter to scratch around in. Having livestock where the chickens can scratch around in the poop helps too. If the quality of forage is not great, yes you need to supplement. I’m not sure how good your forage really is. Winter can be a challenge and you will probably need to supplement, even in Florida. I grew up on a farm like that in the ridges of east Tennessee. We did supplement in the winter but in the good weather they were on their own. We ate a lot of eggs and chicken meat. The chickens were not dying from starvation.

I’m not sure what your native rock is there either. If it is limestone, they can get all the calcium they need from the rocks they eat as grit. They can also get calcium form certain plants and from certain bugs. Look at the egg shells when they start laying. If they are hard enough then they are finding enough calcium. If you can get hold of some hard shells from oyster, mussel, clams, or the hard shells from crab, crush that and let them get calcium from that. The clear flexible shells from shrimp and the soft crab parts are chitin which is protein, not calcium, so you need the hard shells for calcium.

Chickens that rely on forage for all or most of what they eat will not be show quality chickens. They won’t get as big and may not have as shiny feathers as chickens fed a specific diet to give them shiny feathers or big bodies. I think they are healthier too if they get to run around getting exercise and don’t eat too rich a diet to where they get too fat. But that’s just my opinion. We all have different goals and experiences.

The eggs they lay may not be as big as chickens fed a high protein diet. They probably won’t lay as often either. To me, that’s not a bad thing. If feed costs is zero, you are still extremely efficient even with fewer eggs. Before they start to lay, the pullets will build up excess fat, mainly in the pelvic region but other places too. That fat is there to give them a reserve if they go broody. They won’t lay if they don’t have enough fat built up. So if they are laying they are getting what they need. Their body does regulate how many eggs they lay and how big they are based on what they eat.

Chickens that lay eggs bigger than the average for their body can have more prolapse or internal laying problems. Also, pullets that hold off laying for a while seem to have less medical problems. Their bodies need to mature enough to support laying. Don’t take this to mean that every pullet that starts laying young is going to have problems. They are slightly more likely to have problems, not that many of them actually will. Tell your family that the pullets will lay better and longer in the long run if they start laying a little later. There is just enough fact in that to be true, but it’s not really that big a deal.

If what you are doing works for you, keep at it. But stay flexible and change something if you have a problem. Good luck!

 

[Ridgerunner]

Chickens really don't prefer to eat grass. They do however eat more succulent greens like clover, alfalfa, beets, radish, turnips, etc. and any new shoots. When I rotate my pastures, they eat all those other things and the grass is the only thing left.
Depending on the size of the area and stocking density, chickens will eventually eliminate most of the protein sources Even in a place like Florida, with a much longer growing season than here. New bugs won't be forthcoming in December and January.

In the following site you may want to click on the list of links on vitamin, mineral and amino acid deficiencies.
http://www.poultrynews.com/New/Diseases/Merks/207001.htm

Here's a list of all nutrients chickens are known to need.
http://extension.missouri.edu/p/G8352

Those are good points. Chickens will eat grass, but that is not the bulk of what they are foraging. They will eat the grass especially, for a lack of options. Not all grasses are equal.

Yes they quickly deplete the resources over the area they range.

Every location has a deficiency or deficiencies.

It is a false economy to think that their is any money saved, unless no money is spent at all.

My experience as showed me that they do best when they have the best of both worlds.

To the comments on a lack of luster in the feathers, and smaller size is an equivalent to deficiencies in the diet and stunted growth. I do not see any good in that, and I have a hard time with the idea that this makes them healthier.

Birds allowed to roost where they will, will disappear one by one until there is no more.

I think a healthy balance between the extremes could be to give the a quality ration in the evenings before they go to roost in a secure shelter. Filling their crop full of a balanced ration before going to roost may be a good option. It will also reveal whether or not they are satisfied with the day's foraging. Or doing it in the morning, and pulling them off of the roost to see if their crop is full.

The ideas of keeping chickens naturally is not without fault. It is not as if they are a natural part of these environments. They are livestock that are raised for the production of meat an eggs.

To the comments on a lack of luster in the feathers, and smaller size is an equivalent to deficiencies in the diet and stunted growth. I do not see any good in that, and I have a hard time with the idea that this makes them healthier.

That is a fair comment. I’ll try to explain what I was talking about. My actual comment was not that a lack of luster means they are healthy. My comment was

They won’t get as big and may not have as shiny feathers as chickens fed a specific diet to give them shiny feathers or big bodies

I could have phrased that better. Some people feed things specifically to make the chickens look better. One trick to get shiny feathers is to drizzle oil on their feed. That will shine the feathers up but I don’t consider those feathers shiny because of good health. I consider that artificially making them look like they have a healthy sheen.

What some people consider stunted growth may be more their normal growth. Artificially feeding them a high protein diet to make them grow bigger may be more unnatural than letting them reach their natural growth size. There is certainly opinion in this one.

What chickens need is a balanced diet. That means oil, fiber, minerals, protein, and many other things. Feeding them too much of a good thing is not necessarily a good thing. Good quality forage will provide those things. Very few people on this forum have really good quality forage and many that do can’t access it because of predator pressure.

For those that are lucky enough to have the conditions for their chickens to get good forage the chickens can do quite well on that forage. Part of that too is your individual goals. If you are raising chickens for show, no, that will not be sufficient to win ribbons at shows. That will require a special diet. If you are expecting a large egg every day then you need to feed them to support that kind of laying. They are unlikely to get enough on forage alone to support that, especially the large part of that. They can still lay pretty regularly, even most days, but the eggs won’t be as large. If you are wanting to rush them to butcher age, you need to feed them to meet that goal. If your goals are more around an average sized egg and average sized chickens and you have the conditions where they can forage for most of all of their feed they can do extremely well on that forage.

Yes they quickly deplete the resources over the area they range.

Could you explain your experience with this on high quality forage where they have the ability to range? I lived it. I grew up on a farm where the chickens fed themselves most months of the year. But they were totally free range. They had large areas to forage. They were not contained.

It is a false economy to think that their is any money saved, unless no money is spent at all.

I’m sorry. I don’t understand this comment at all.

Birds allowed to roost where they will, will disappear one by one until there is no more.

Most of our chickens roosted in the hen house, but some slept in trees year around. They did not disappear one by one until there is no more. We would go years between predator attacks. But a fox or dog would finally find our flock and have to be dealt with. Growing up, I remember one dog and one fox. That was not disappearing one by one.

Different people have different predator pressure. Chickens allowed to forage or roost without protection are certainly at risk. It is likely you will have losses at some time or another. I can’t truly free range here because too many people drop off dogs in the country. I have to keep them inside an electric netting or abandoned dogs would wipe me out. We don’t all have the same conditions any more than we have the same goals. Predators are a huge issue for most of us, but not all.

They are livestock that are raised for the production of meat an eggs.

Again I have trouble understanding exactly what you mean by this. You can find some bad apples in every barrel, but most people that raise livestock understand that an unhealthy animal does not produce. The norm is that people that raise “livestock” provide adequate food, water, protection from predators, and appropriate shelter. Calm contented animals produce best. Sick, mistreated, or underfed animals are not in anyone’s best interests. Taking care of “livestock” is normally a 24/7/365 job. You are all the time looking out for the health and well-being of that animal. It is a fulltime job.

We all have our own goals and our own ways to deal with these different issues. I know my ways won’t suit many other people. I’m not going to assume that my way is the only right way. There are many things that work.

 

[BayBay Peepers]

You could always mix your own organic feed if your worried about too many additives. I'm sure for now you could feed whatever you'd like, but when they start laying they're going to need a calcium source. Layer feed has more calcium than starter, but you may want to consider oyster shell as well.

We offer the feeds free choice, but it really only gets eaten in winter when there's nothing left outside.

 

[witchwriter]

i keep telling them.... tell them when their combs and such come all the way out then maybe it will happen.... i tell them they are not old enough yet..... i am the one doing all the studying and they know everything can you tell this is my first flock

deb

 

[witchwriter]

i have a commercial dehydrator and my parrots eat dehydrated fruits, vegetables, meat - its all natural and the kids use the same mix to flavor their ramen lol. i just plan on giving the chickens the raw parts i can't dehydrate plus table scraps and the legumes. both species will get peanuts and sunflower seeds. i am actually hoping the parrots might like the cracked corn sour mash - more studying to make sure its safe for them. i've been a parrot mom for over 8 years i just came in from raking over a small compost pile and right now the girls are all out there searching for bugs and worms. next year they will have their own garden to forage - nothing fancy, just some squashes, cucumbers, and other vine veggies and basil. i promise they will have a healthy, well-balanced diet.

deb

 

[ECBW]

My birds definitely prefer nature's offering, even that dirty water from the mud puddle. On days that they get to free range, the feed consumption drops, inversely proportional. I wish I can free range them full time.

Is it more nutritious? I can only say for certain that they are healthy and productive.

Word of caution to OP, beware of predators.

 

[witchwriter]

i have chubby chickens LOL they are not fat but they sure ain't skinny they run and play and forage all day long. we do have alot of limestaone here and the driveway is crushed oyster shell. they tend to do that alot in this area. i never really thought about that as a calcium source and bought oyster shell to keep readily available. thats probably why they haven't touched the oyster shell i set out. there are about 100 head of cattle which the girls go visit every morning (i just hope they stay away from those psychedelic ones ones lol). the plant life is so varied i couldn't possibly begin to count them. the field right next to us was just turned and the ladies hung out over there before it was planted. not sure what they planted but that will be available to forage as well. there were also blackberries while they were in season. there is no lack of variety here. heeck, i can't keep the frogs out of my house so i am certain there are more than enough to eat.

my 2 black australorps just glisten in the sunlight with silvery green and blue tints shining on their black feathers. my reds are shiny too. the chickens are shinier and softer than the parrots

 

[Going Quackers]

Quote: I think that is truly the key, my standard chickens all range... the group of all hens in particular they don't consume much food, it's in their coop and they will go 'share' where the ducks are(again free ranged) but as said overall quality of forage varies massively which greatly effects the ability of no commercial feeds vs having.

Staying on top of the flocks health and being willing to change/alter is the key to any flock working well, really.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

Chickens really don't prefer to eat grass. They do however eat more succulent greens like clover, alfalfa, beets, radish, turnips, etc. and any new shoots. When I rotate my pastures, they eat all those other things and the grass is the only thing left.
Depending on the size of the area and stocking density, chickens will eventually eliminate most of the protein sources Even in a place like Florida, with a much longer growing season than here. New bugs won't be forthcoming in December and January.

In the following site you may want to click on the list of links on vitamin, mineral and amino acid deficiencies.
http://www.poultrynews.com/New/Diseases/Merks/207001.htm

Here's a list of all nutrients chickens are known to need.
http://extension.missouri.edu/p/G8352