Thoughts and Observations on Protein

[Krux5506]

Yeah that bugs me, why have a feed as low as .2 for met? Everyone else seems to rave about Bar Ale as being a solid brand otherwise.

 

[cincyfarmgirl]

My flock is pretty mixed - black sex link, mystic marans, copper marans, RIR, EE, OE, and Buff Orps. It just seems like they've all benefited a lot from this switch. I see so many people elsewhere claiming the only way chickens will lay during winter is with supplemental light as they need a minimum of 14 hours a day for egg production, yet I can't help but wonder if that's another common chicken myth that gets echoed over and over when really it's more of a nutritional issue.

My own experience is that it is not a myth that they need light in order to lay eggs. Perhaps 14 hours a day is a good guess. In fact, even though it’s difficult to separate all the variables that influence egg production, I did find that when I extended the winter daylight by an additional three hours, egg production doubled. I set a light on a timer that comes on at 5:30 (to attract them into the chicken house was my objective), but it seems to have resulted in higher egg production. Having said that, I think there’s some wisdom in not pushing the limits of egg production as, after all, they need a bit of a break especially if the weather is very cold we shouldn’t over demand.

 

[Krux5506]

My own experience is that it is not a myth that they need light in order to lay eggs. Perhaps 14 hours a day is a good guess. In fact, even though it’s difficult to separate all the variables that influence egg production, I did find that when I extended the winter daylight by an additional three hours, egg production doubled. I set a light on a timer that comes on at 5:30 (to attract them into the chicken house was my objective), but it seems to have resulted in higher egg production. Having said that, I think there’s some wisdom in not pushing the limits of egg production as, after all, they need a bit of a break especially if the weather is very cold we shouldn’t over demand.

I really never questioned it until I had brand new layers start during the darkest and coldest days of the year here in NY. I really figured they'd just hold off til Spring. They are my RIR, EE, and Buff Orpingtons. My French Copper Marans is still holding off though.

 

[Folly's place]

All good advice here, and I'll add a couple of points. Mill date matters, because some vitamins are lost as bagged feed ages over time. What's fresh where you shop makes a difference.
Adding meat scraps, cat food, or whatever to a low protein feed costs more, won't be eaten by everyone at the same rate, and just doesn't make sense, compared to using a better base diet.
The original wild chicken, living in SE Asia, produced maybe thirty eggs per year, had a jungle environment, with lots of varied foodstuffs available all year, and probably most individuals didn't live to an old age. Our modern heritage dual purpose breeds aren't the same, and don't live in the same environment. And high producing breeds are specialists who need very careful management to do well. A hen producing 100 to 150 eggs per year was considered a fantastic producer not so long ago, and now 300+ eggs is where some of these birds are!
We feed a 20% protein diet, fresh where we shop, all year, with separate oyster shell and grit, and the birds free range on our farm when they can. Right now, snow and cold make finding goodies out there about impossible, it's not Cambodia!
Mary

 

[RoyalChick]

Sorry to jump in here - not meaning to divert - but quick question on methionine levels. Earlier in this thread (and elsewhere) @U_Stormcrow has explained about methionine levels of 0.3 being bare minimum. I am deciding on a new feed to try (mainly to get some more calcium for my now mainly laying flock) and I have a choice of a layer feed that is 20% crude protein and 0.4% methionine and an All-Flock that is also 20% crude protein and 0.55% methionine.

That seems like a big difference but both are well about the 0.3% minimum. So I guess my question on methionine is whether more is always better or if, once I am in the 0.4% zone there isn't much benefit from going higher in which case I will get the layer feed because at least in the spring I want to make sure my layers are getting enough calcium.
Any thoughts?
Thanks!

 

[U_Stormcrow]

0.4% methionine is good for most anything. The only reason to seriously consider 0.55% methionine is if you are raising meat birds like CX and similar. I would be perfectly happy with Met in the 0.4% through 0.45% inclusion rates. If price is the same, there is no detriment to the higher 0.55% level. If you have a high number of hatchlings or adolescents, or a dual purpose bird you are raising primarily for meat, there is a marginal benefit. But not if there is a significant difference in price between the two bags. How significant price difference? The differences are small enough I wouldn't pay more than 50 cents a bag, and I would only do that while I was actively hatching new Birds.

Hope that answers your question.

Edited to fix some of the most glaring speech to text problems.

 

[Folly's place]

Also the makeup of your flock. Are all your birds laying eggs, or do you have youngsters, old birds, and males, in addition to your actively laying hens? Then an all flock diet would be best for everyone.
Mary

 

[Krux5506]

0.4% methionine is good for most anything. The only reason to seriously consider 0.55% methionine is if you are raising meat birds like CX and similar. I would be perfectly happy with Matt in the 0.4% through 0.45% inclusion rates. If price is the same, there is no detriment to the higher 0.55% level. If you have a high number of hatchlings or adolescence, or a dual purpose bird you are raising primarily for me, there is a marginal benefit. But not if there is a significant difference in price between the two bags. How significant price difference? The differences are small enough I wouldn't pay more than 50 cents a bag, and I would only do that while I was actively hatching new Birds.

Hope that answers your question.

I recently tried out a feed from Bar Ale based on it's price tag. It is a corn and soy free feed, although I'm not opposed to corn but again the price was right compared to my usual Modesto feed I get. Once I got it I realized the methionine levels were .2 - correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems quite a bit under the bare minimum. All their other feeds do not have that LOW level, only the corn/soy free one. Seems odd to me. Anyway, I switched back to the Modesto stuff for that reason alone.

 

[U_Stormcrow]

I recently tried out a feed from Bar Ale based on it's price tag. It is a corn and soy free feed, although I'm not opposed to corn but again the price was right compared to my usual Modesto feed I get. Once I got it I realized the methionine levels were .2 - correct me if I'm wrong, but that seems quite a bit under the bare minimum. All their other feeds do not have that LOW level, only the corn/soy free one. Seems odd to me. Anyway, I switched back to the Modesto stuff for that reason alone.

Yes, that's a below minimum recommend by a significant margin.

Its because they removed the soy. Its one of the few decent Met sources in the plant world.

 

[RoyalChick]

0.4% methionine is good for most anything. The only reason to seriously consider 0.55% methionine is if you are raising meat birds like CX and similar. I would be perfectly happy with Met in the 0.4% through 0.45% inclusion rates. If price is the same, there is no detriment to the higher 0.55% level. If you have a high number of hatchlings or adolescents, or a dual purpose bird you are raising primarily for meat, there is a marginal benefit. But not if there is a significant difference in price between the two bags. How significant price difference? The differences are small enough I wouldn't pay more than 50 cents a bag, and I would only do that while I was actively hatching new Birds.

Hope that answers your question.

Edited to fix some of the most glaring speech to text problems.

Thank you. That answers my question perfectly and I have placed my order.
All but one of my flock are laying and that one is just playing with me - she is almost a year old and has not yet laid her first egg. But I am sure she will soon!