Thoughts and Observations on Protein

[Krux5506]

Hopefully this doesn't come off as long winded but after reading extensively through this forum topic of feeding it didn't take me long to be convinced to switch from 16% layer feed to a higher protein (22%) chick feed for my entire flock, with shell on the side. I made the switch around November of this year when a few of my girls were enduring a mild molt, and none of them were laying at all. Once I got them onto that higher protein feed, I would say within 3 or so weeks one by one they started laying again, and even some of the younger pullets began laying their first eggs in the midst of our darker and colder winter days. I have a copper maran who's still holding out from laying her first but any day now I bet she will, her comb is quite telling.

What's interesting, though possibly coincidental to note is this. When my first layers (5 of them) began laying this past summer in July/August, they were on layer feed. This was the 16% feed, non soy from Modesto. Most of their eggs were fine, but double yolkers seemed fairly common, as well as a few shell-less or just soft shelled eggs here and there. During this time I also always had oyster shell on the side so calcium really should not have been any issue between the feed and extra shell. Fast forward to this winter when the next round of birds has started laying, all while on the higher protein feed, and not once now in 2 months have any of those birds laid any odd eggs. No double yolkers, no soft shelled eggs, nothing weird at all to speak of. Every egg has been completely normal. Most now even have a heavier bloom on them, which I would think is indicative of excess calcium.

This got me wondering about protein levels and how they can coincide with higher quality eggs if at all. I recall reading a study from BYC someone posted a while back showing results of incubated eggs based on their protein levels of their feeds, 22% showing the highest success rates. Would this type of egg quality also explain why my newly laying pullets haven't had one wonky egg yet? Does the feed industry and chicken people in general tend to put far too much emphasis on calcium rather than protein? My original intent was to keep them on higher protein feed for the winter time, but now I'm wondering if I should just stick with it year round...

 

[Brooks_]

My first thought is that the higher protein feed has a better all around nutritional profile. Many factors at play so not coincidental, but not protein alone either.

 

[Stravager]

Commercial poultry layer is also designed for hybrid chickens who are bred to produce a lot with a little. If you have heritage or any other sort of chicken, then half the time the protein requirements are not met with a 16% or 17% mix. Heritage breeds do better with 22% or more if I recall correctly....

 

[Krux5506]

My flock is pretty mixed - black sex link, mystic marans, copper marans, RIR, EE, OE, and Buff Orps. It just seems like they've all benefited a lot from this switch. I see so many people elsewhere claiming the only way chickens will lay during winter is with supplemental light as they need a minimum of 14 hours a day for egg production, yet I can't help but wonder if that's another common chicken myth that gets echoed over and over when really it's more of a nutritional issue.

 

[Shadrach]

If you can find a foodstuff combination of natural foods that can be foraged by a chicken that provides 22% protein I'll be very very surprised.
If you can find a natural foodstuff that gives 16% protein that a chicken can forage I'll be surprised.
If you can find a natural foodstuff that provides 16% protein with only 5% fat I'll start eating grass.
That should tell you something and that something is none of the commercial represent food a chicken would find in the wild.

Yet chickens do survive in the wild and in some places in the world, medium egg layers (100 to 150 eggs a year) survive on forage and a handfull of mixed grains.

High production breeds require these concentrated commercial feeds because they lay an unnatural quantity of eggs a year.

So the place to start is how many eggs a year do your hens lay on average?

 

[SandyRiverChick]

I thought 22% was the highest protein rating that I could get in a commercial feed but just now I found: Hudson Feeds 23% Protein Multi Flock Grower Poultry Feed, 50lb. Has anyone used this?

 

[Perris]

Percentages of x, y, z are relevant only for homogenised feeds exclusively given. Animal metabolism has evolved to deal with mixed intakes of everything, not x amount of something every meal every day, which is all those percentages are about.
What matters is that the chicken gets enough of all essential nutrients over a significant period of time - a lot longer than a day, a week, or even longer for most animals (it is a commonplace that most deficiencies take a long time to have an impact.) So one does not need to fret over 16% or 23% or suchlike unless one is giving a homogenised commercial feed and nothing else. As long as the chicken gets enough of the major and minor nutrients over weeks and months it'll be fine.

 

[K0k0shka]

My flock eats 20% protein flock raiser year-round, with crushed eggshell on the side always available, and in the 4 years I've had this flock, I've only had a "wonky" egg twice - from a hen who goes broody a lot and when she resumes laying after she has raised a batch of chicks, her first egg is soft-shelled. So that's an edge case scenario specific to her. Other hens that have raised chicks, and the rest of the flock, have always laid normal eggs. Not sure if that counts for anything, but that's been my experience. I agree with others who have said that low protein layer feeds were designed to get a lot with a little from production breeds. My breeds are all heritage. Chickens have survived on a lot less historically, or when feral, but like it was already said, they don't produce a lot of output with that, and don't live as long. So yeah you don't have to feed a consistent high protein diet, but if you don't, you should adjust your expectations as well.

Most now even have a heavier bloom on them, which I would think is indicative of excess calcium.

The bloom doesn't contain calcium.

 

[RoyalChick]

From what I have found in the scientific literature:

Insects and larvae can be very high in protein content (usually also with high fat).
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6728817/

Lawn grass can be as much as 26% protein by dry weight but varies a lot by type of grass and seasonally (as does my chicken's interest in eating it)
https://www.nature.com/articles/148368c0#:~:text=Moreover, according to data provided,per cent of digestible matter.

Mice have between 16-18% protein and a lot of fat.
https://www.researchgate.net/figure/Body-weight-fat-protein-and-energy-content-of-mice-at-SI-days-of-age-MaleBodyWeight_tbl2_22261311#:~:text=On a concentration basis, obese,18% protein. ...

My chickens enjoy all of the above.

 

[Krux5506]

The bloom doesn't contain calcium.

Any thoughts on what would cause the excess bloom or what I'm assuming is excess bloom in most of my eggs? Basically a heavier white film. Seems like they didn't do this when on layer feed although also not sure if it's due to different laying habits in the winter or what. Everyone on a FB group kept saying to someone else with similar looking eggs it was excess calcium. I've also picked up on how much weird mis-info is perpetuated on those groups constantly...