Stores are crowded again;Sign things are looking up

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I asked if you were joking about Hoover believing in a free market. I'm not trying to be pessimistic, but if you read the stuff I read, I think you would understand. I would love it if I could say this was just a "slight economic downturn," but it isn't. This is the worst the economy has been since the Great Depression. It would be a lot easier to get through if the government would keep its filthy hands out of the economy and let the FREE market work.

See how much respect I have for Uncle Sam?
 
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I asked if you were joking about Hoover believing in a free market. I'm not trying to be pessimistic, but if you read the stuff I read, I think you would understand. I would love it if I could say this was just a "slight economic downturn," but it isn't. This is the worst the economy has been since the Great Depression. It would be a lot easier to get through if the government would keep its filthy hands out of the economy and let the FREE market work.

See how much respect I have for Uncle Sam?

I don't want to argue. There is more economic theory and schools of thought then just the general concepts of classical economics. The New Economic Theory, Development Economics and Keyensian Economics are worthwhile to look into if you are interested in a comprehensive view of market systems. Economics is a broad discipline that still retains some of Adams Smith principles, however, they do not follow it to the letter. It is widely held that a free market with no obstructions could not benefit the majority of the people. This system cannot work in reality. Adams Smith's original concept of a free market system is essential flawed. It is assumed that everyone is equal, have perfect knowledge of the market and are rational. However, for their to be exchange (i.e. sell things to make profit) a certain level of inequality and unknown. As for rational, massive panics that accure after economic downturns prove that this does not exist.

We can see from the crashes and panics of the 19th century, the Great Depression and similiar problems in developing countries, unfetered markets are not stable nor benefitial to anyone. It is alright to have some controls and oversight of the market. It creates parameters in which we can have a stable, healthy market. The unfetered market causes the boom and bust scenerio that you describe.

The information that I am presenting is not orbitrary. It is from years of undergraduate and graduate education and independent field research.

Please, do your own research. Form you own thoughts. Do not just follow what one polititician says. It will only lead to trouble.
 
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I asked if you were joking about Hoover believing in a free market. I'm not trying to be pessimistic, but if you read the stuff I read, I think you would understand. I would love it if I could say this was just a "slight economic downturn," but it isn't. This is the worst the economy has been since the Great Depression. It would be a lot easier to get through if the government would keep its filthy hands out of the economy and let the FREE market work.

See how much respect I have for Uncle Sam?

I don't want to argue. There is more economic theory and schools of thought then just the general concepts of classical economics. The New Economic Theory, Development Economics and Keyensian Economics are worthwhile to look into if you are interested in a comprehensive view of market systems. Economics is a broad discipline that still retains some of Adams Smith principles, however, they do not follow it to the letter. It is widely held that a free market with no obstructions could not benefit the majority of the people. This system cannot work in reality. Adams Smith's original concept of a free market system is essential flawed. It is assumed that everyone is equal, have perfect knowledge of the market and are rational. However, for their to be exchange (i.e. sell things to make profit) a certain level of inequality and unknown. As for rational, massive panics that accure after economic downturns prove that this does not exist.

We can see from the crashes and panics of the 19th century, the Great Depression and similiar problems in developing countries, unfetered markets are not stable nor benefitial to anyone. It is alright to have some controls and oversight of the market. It creates parameters in which we can have a stable, healthy market. The unfetered market causes the boom and bust scenerio that you describe.

The information that I am presenting is not orbitrary. It is from years of undergraduate and graduate education and independent field research.

Please, do your own research. Form you own thoughts. Do not just follow what one polititician says. It will only lead to trouble.

Free-market economics most certainly does not claim that everyone has perfect knowledge of the market. Such a thing is an impossibility, which is why gooberment attempts to manipulate the economy for the better have utterly, horribly, miserably, and a ton of other "ly" words, failed. I'm not just following "one politician." I'm actually lending an ear to people like Peter Schiff (who predicted the crisis we're stuck in now), Tom Woods, Tom DiLorenzo, Ludwig von Mises, Henry Hazlitt, and Ron Paul (okay, he's a politician, but he's truly free market and also predicted the crisis). I have yet to find an instance of a government economic program actually working. Hoover's attempts were an obvious failure, the New Deal failed horribly, and of course there's today. Compare these to the recession of 1920-21. Harding stopped it easily. He sat there and did nothing aside from cutting spending. An excellent book on economics is Henry Hazlitt's "Economics in One Lesson." Very easy to understand, too. Ron Paul's "End the Fed" and Tom Woods' "Meltdown" are also great at explaining economics from a free market perspective. I really like history, and one of the reasons Austrian (free market) economics convinces me is because, in light of cold, hard historical facts, it has a flawless reputation. I'll leave this thread, but please allow me to finish with a little humor.

Sure, it works in practice, but will it work in theory?
 
In a full free market situation, you have events like, oh, companies adding poison to baby formula to boost protein levels and shooting people who try to protest working conditions, and of course, people being starved because they can't earn a livable wage or had an injury received from those same deplorable working conditions and now can't work at all. On the other extreme, you have communism which fails the moment you add human nature into the equation.

A happy medium needs to be found.
 
Why do you mention Hoover and the New Deal together? Hoover neither came up with the concept nor implimented. It was FDR under the advise of Keynes. Everyone knows that. As for the New Deal working, it did work. The unemployment went from well over 30% (a low estimate of unemployment in "33, but the only figure available) to about 10%. How is that not progress? It also convienced many people to hold until better times. The socialist party was growing in the early thirties - about 20% of the voting population - and there was a chance that they would have taken control in the coming years.

The majority of people also thought that the rise in housing prices, debt and consumption would end in no good. It did not take a economic genius to perdict. The average person would not agree with your no restraint market, though. It was our best and brightest - those educated in business and economics - that ignored the warnings and continued with business as usual.

I agree with GrayDragon. If the government does not intervene in the markets corporations will take control. No one wants that scenerio.

No, I am not for communism. I also believe that we need to have something in the middle.

P.S. The reason I mentioned other economic theories is because I want to remind you our goal is not to have a free market or an idealized market. The goal is to insure the welfare of everyone. These theories move away from focus on neo-classical models and focus on development and increasing others quality of life.

A free market system, especially the transfer to one, will have a few winners and many losers. You should watch out. You will probably find yourself very much on the losing end.
 
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It's not too good here in Illinois where i live. Everyone, even those who have good jobs and secure ones, are living paycheck to paycheck. Jobs are drying up, some new ones coming in, but with only 80 positions open and hundreds of applicants, its hard to get encouraged!

My g.f. and I had a yard sale this fall and the one thing I noticed that really brought it home that I wasn't the ONLY one forced to do this, but people would look and look at the clothes, even try them on a little bit, but if it didn't fit just perfect or wasn't what they really really wanted, they left it. Use too, they would buy it and pass it on, or take it to the consignment store, but not any more. I had very nice boys clothes, some even had the tags still on them, and I put a dollar or less, and I still had some left. . .so we aren't over it yet.

Get your pantries full for winter, buy in bulk and freeze if you can. Winter worries me, even if the gas prices are down.
 
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One thing I want to add to this; as a realtor I work with a lot of young couples who just don't get it that they HAVE to pay their cell phone bills, even if YOU don't have service anymore, pay up any overdrafted accounts, and things like that in order to stay on top of a good credit score, to say nothing of credit card debt. I have said it once and I say it over and over that Wal-Mart and Credit Cards are the ruination of the young people in this country. There is a lot NOT said about one stop shopping. I think it stinks. That is why I drive 40 miles once a month to do all my big shopping and then just pick up what little dab I need for the month. I still have debt, and it will take me awhile to get out of it, but it won't because I am not trying.
 
I can't believe anyone thinks that things are getting better. Even more poor forgotten farmers are losing their farms in my area. I was in a Wal-Mart today and it was a ghost town! I couldn't believe it! I think the stock market is about ready to crash to rock bottom. I didn't go to college and I don't need to to understand that you can't just keep printing money, or tax people even more during a recession, or bail big companies out. None of that works! And I also see how we are paralelling the great depression. It's scary stuff. And then you hear about the strange signs popping up on major highways that no one knows what they mean, and there is a new big prison nearby... I say the worst is yet to come.
 
Depends on where you live, I guess.

Here, there are starting to be more jobs available and the big lay-offs have ended.

We are pretty much at the bottom. Could get a little worse, but unless there is another big screwup (or another round of OMG EVERYBODY PANIC!!!!), it's not going to get much work. Companies that were going to go out of business have, other companies are starting to test the waters of expansion, and if you are planning on starting a business, now is the time.
 
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I have not made these observations at all. I work in the tourist industry and our merchandise department just released the newest numbers: sales are down 22% compared to last year. If last year, people bought a sweater for $ 49.99, this year they buy a key chain for $ 4.99 instead....
 

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