Struggling to Find Reasonably Priced Feed?

[BrandonsBirbs]

this article would suggest that this is a modern myth, and that mealworms are fine as part of poultry feed https://doi.org/10.1016/j.japr.2020.10.001
I don't know about quail feed.

You might also want to look at pp.74-76 comparing mealworms with beef
https://www.fao.org/3/i3253e/i3253e.pdf

The second article seems very human orientated and I imagine we break down and store fats very differently to birds. The issue with fats are the effects they can have on the heart, for little birds like quail I can imagine it's very easy to overdo it.

I am not saying you're wrong, I just imagine quails cannot burn through the fats fast enough to be able to regularly eat mealworms. They are a fantastic source of extra protein though!

 

[Perris]

Yes the second article is human orientated. But it is a scientific paper published by the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations, so it may be more reliable than your imagination (no offense intended). Do you know what proportion of a mealworm is fat?

 

[BrandonsBirbs]

Yes the second article is human orientated. But it is a scientific paper published by the Food and Agriculture Organization of the United Nations, so it may be more reliable than your imagination (no offense intended). Do you know what proportion of a mealworm is fat?

The proportions greatly depend on dry vs live mealworms.

Dry: 53% protein, 28% fat, 6% fiber, and 5% moisture.
Live: 20% protein, 13% fat, 2% fiber, and 62% moisture.

I am noway discredited the paper, however it's significance is greatly reduced seeing as birds do process fats very differently to us humans.

Fattening up
A bird’s digestive system is adapted to get the most from its food in the shortest time. This means birds can quickly turn food into fat, to survive a hard winter or a long migration flight. A sedge warbler can increase its body weight from 10 to 18 grams in the two weeks before migration.

Fast digestion also means young birds grow up quickly. A willow warbler is ready to fly to Africa within two months of hatching from its egg.

This is a simple explanation from the RSPB, birds very quickly break food down. This is a fantastic explanation of a bird's digestive system.

The reason wild birds try not to overeat and put on weight is due to predatory pressure (the fattest is the tastiest)! See here.

The present study investigated the effects of dietary supplementation with canola oil (10% of the diet) on body mass, lipid absorption and lipid deposition in the liver and the breast and thigh muscles of the Japanese quail. After seven weeks of supplementation with 10% canola oil there was no significant difference in body mass between quail in the HFD and STD groups. All birds had a significant body mass gain (p < 0.001) during the first four weeks of feeding and then maintained a stable body mass thereafter, irrespective of the diet type. This suggests that the weekly body mass gain observed in the Japanese quail was not influenced by the diet type, but by the growing stage in attaining matured body mass. Wilson et al. (1961) and Ricklefs (1979) reported that quail attain a mature body mass at eight weeks of age, which is in agreement with the results of the current study.

An interesting study which shows that added fats could not negatively affect quail. This study doesn't show that over time what affect extra weight/fats could have on a quails heart or liver but suggests that it may not actually affect weight gain. Download full study here.

Actually here is another study which shows that maybe a high fat diet has no major affects on quail.. here!

I am starting to wonder if you're right!

 

[BrandonsBirbs]

As a matter of fact that last study explains the diets made no difference to their livers (a common reason we're told not to over feed mealworms). Interesting!

 

[Perris]

thanks for those links: that's my morning sorted!

 

[CovidtimeQuail]

Now that my new greenhouse is done, it's time for me to start my black soldier fly project back up. They're high in protein and contain calcium, so they're a good addition to feed. They will allow me to feed my birds a bit more veggie scraps too. That's one way to reduce feed costs.

I do mealworms. After figuring out some tricks to keeping grain mites out (i.e. use Cuban oregano instead of carrots for moisture), I'm able to keep them going with a prepared bag of oatmeal and the bitty crumbs from the quail crumble. Be sure to bake the substrate -- oatmeal & overcrumbled crumble -- before using to remove any already existing grain mites.

Only took me two years to finally figure it out: don't overwater the mealworms.

And yes, it really saves money and is a great way to make sure the whole bag of feed is used, even the crumbs.

 

[CovidtimeQuail]

I do mealworms. After figuring out some tricks to keeping grain mites out (i.e. use Cuban oregano instead of carrots for moisture), I'm able to keep them going with a prepared bag of oatmeal and the bitty crumbs from the quail crumble. Be sure to bake the substrate -- oatmeal & overcrumbled crumble -- before using to remove any already existing grain mites.

Only took me two years to finally figure it out: don't overwater the mealworms.

And yes, it really saves money and is a great way to make sure the whole bag of feed is used, even the crumbs.

Also, I've found that layer feed with mealworms in the afternoon are better than gamebird feed throughout their lives. My birds were seriously chonky until I switched out the feed.

 

[elanski]

Managed to source some feed! From Burnhills.

View attachment 3150337View attachment 3150339+£7.50 for each bag to be delivered worked out to be the cheapest I could find. It's next day delivery too which is nice I suppose lol. They wanted another £7 to deliver a 4kg bag of quail grit/oystershell too so decided not to buy it.

I realise I'm complaining about such a small amount of feed compared to what many people have to buy, so sorry!

Hi. Found this thread as I am also searching for quail food that doesn't cost a fortune. I've looked at those products at Burnhills. Thanks for sharing. But is the pellet size not too big for quail?

Funny thing is they do sell a specific Quail Breeders feed but it seems low on protein to me at 17%.
https://www.burnhills.com/small-hol...l-partridge-breeder-layers-pellets-20kg-p7101

What do you folk think would be the best one to get for birds just starting to lay?

 

[BrandonsBirbs]

Hi. Found this thread as I am also searching for quail food that doesn't cost a fortune. I've looked at those products at Burnhills. Thanks for sharing. But is the pellet size not too big for quail?

Funny thing is they do sell a specific Quail Breeders feed but it seems low on protein to me at 17%.
https://www.burnhills.com/small-hol...l-partridge-breeder-layers-pellets-20kg-p7101

What do you folk think would be the best one to get for birds just starting to lay?

Heygates are expensive in my experience, but good food. Once they're starting to lay you don't need high protein feed, it's a common misconception that people seem to assume. The high protein helps aid their start in live and because quail mature SO quickly it helps them do so in a healthy manner. You can continue to feed a high protein feed afterwards however you don't need to.

Feel free to use any chicken layer feed that's got a good amount of calcium and isn't below 14% protein. Amazon actually has reasonably priced chicken layer feed. If you have meat birds, continue them on high protein feed until you cull them, some birds are fully grown at 8 weeks but by 10 weeks I believe all birds are fully grown. I cull once they crow at 6 weeks.

 

[BrandonsBirbs]

But otherwise, no, the pellets have been doing pretty well with my girls so far and they don't seem to have any issues with them. I will be going back to buying them chicken layer feed though as I don't see any difference with this specific game feed. (Was testing).