Suddenly refusing fermented food

[Beekissed]

Well, this is the third day in a row my chickens won't eat it. And I even locked them up all day until just a few minutes ago. Maybe just wet teen the food with some milk and forgetting about soaking it all night would help. I did buy a mason jar today so that I could try truly fermenting it. Will see how it goes.

I'm doubting you have fermented feed if you just soak it overnight...depending on the temps, your climate and the water you are using, it could take up to 48-72 hrs to get a ferment started. Make sure it's actually fermented, don't feed them all day until they've foraged and gotten good and hungry....then dish them some out. Hungry chickens will eat just about anything, so it could be a number of things going on here but I'm doubting it's because they don't like fermented feed.

 

[Leigti]

I'm doubting you have fermented feed if you just soak it overnight...depending on the temps, your climate and the water you are using, it could take up to 48-72 hrs to get a ferment started.  Make sure it's actually fermented, don't feed them all day until they've foraged and gotten good and hungry....then dish them some out.  Hungry chickens will eat just about anything, so it could be a number of things going on here but I'm doubting it's because they don't like fermented feed. 

I know I have not made true fermented food yet. So I am going to do that and then try feeding it to them. I have only tried feeding them food that has been soaked overnight. And they don't seem to like it. I will start a batch of fermented food tonight and hopefully it will be ready in about three days to start feeding them. I'm going to try the one container method and just keep it going if possible.
I did have one question, people say to keep at least an inch of water above the level of the grains, but what about the sunflower seeds? They seem to float. Do they stop floating after a couple days?

 

[Beekissed]

Those people are wrong. It's not needed to keep water over the grains at all and serves no purpose whatsoever, except to make the feed gloopy and difficult to dish out without straining. When you make your initial bucket or replenish the water will be over the feed until it absorbs the fluid, but it's much better if fed dryer...very thick, like a mortar or paste consistency. I feed mash so mine is more like a thick granola mixture. At that point, the BOSS floats to the top and will still be there when the water absorbs, then you just stir them in...like in the vid below.

This is what mine generally looks like at all times....

 

[Leigti]

OK, now I know how the people on my Tortoise Forum feel when they are new at something. The learning curve can be frustrating. I have read so often that the water level needs to stay above the level of the green. I think it was because mold would grow on top if there wasn't a layer of water. So yours doesn't get moldy? Like I said, I can't see well at all and I will not be able to tell if there is mold. I am relying heavily on my sense of smell for this. So as long as I stir it to her three times a day I should be OK not worrying so much about the water level? And one more thing, should I add the vinegar that people talk about? I have added it to the drinking water. It is the kind with "mother". Sorry for all these questions. I just want to make sure my chickens are safe. I would never forgive myself if I did something that hurt them.

 

[Beekissed]

OK, now I know how the people on my Tortoise Forum feel when they are new at something. The learning curve can be frustrating. I have read so often that the water level needs to stay above the level of the green. I think it was because mold would grow on top if there wasn't a layer of water. So yours doesn't get moldy? Like I said, I can't see well at all and I will not be able to tell if there is mold. I am relying heavily on my sense of smell for this. So as long as I stir it to her three times a day I should be OK not worrying so much about the water level? And one more thing, should I add the vinegar that people talk about? I have added it to the drinking water. It is the kind with "mother". Sorry for all these questions. I just want to make sure my chickens are safe. I would never forgive myself if I did something that hurt them.

No, the water level can't prevent mold growth at all, so whoever told you that is misinformed. Lot of that goin' around lately. No, mine doesn't get moldy. You don't have to stir it three times a day either...just once is enough. You'll see a light film of white or grey on top each morning and that's yeast growth, not mold...just stir it in and feed it out...that's the good stuff.

You don't have to add vinegar...acetic acid is a byproduct of grain fermentation, so it makes its own vinegar, of a sort, and that's the sour smell you'll be smelling when you get a good ferment going. Just leave your lid cracked open on one side to allow the wild yeasts to start your fermentation process and you can't go wrong with this. Here's a site that has the answers to the most FAQ on fermented feed:

Been feeding this for over 3 yrs and my chickens are safe as houses, so it's not a bit dangerous to feed FF. Just use common sense, do your own research on grain fermentation, what it does to the grains, etc. Knowledge is key and it's best if you don't listen to all the misinformation out there....do your own basic research or follow the links on the FAQ site to studies and information done on more official sites than a personal blog.

It's also best if you get familiar with the big FF threads on BYC and ask questions there, where folks have been fermenting for some time now and can help you quickly and point you in the right direction. You'll find those in the feed sections of the forum and you can't miss them....they are the biggest threads on the forum on the topic.

 

[Leigti]

OK, but it was one of the links posted on those big threads that sent me two sites that said to keep the water level above the grain. I will just stay on this site alone and not get all confused by everything else out there. It took a little bit to learn how to feed my dog and cat raw food so I guess this will take a little time to. I will continue to wade through those huge threads thanks everybody for your help.

 

[Beekissed]

This one had a link like that? https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/645057/fermented-feeds-anyone-using-them

Or this one? https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/644300/fermenting-feed-for-meat-birds

Those are the two biggest threads on FF and, if someone posted a link on those to a site that said cover the feed with water, they were just a random poster and not one that's experienced in fermenting on those threads.

Keep in mind, the information on FF has grown and grown since those very first posts and the method has simplified a good bit...no need to use the ACV or two buckets, etc. Just one bucket, feed and water are enough to get you where you are going.

 

[Leigti]

I can't remember which thread, I've read so many. I usually go to the most recent page of a thread and then backtrack three or four pages and start reading from there. I don't have time to read hundreds of pages of a thread. I just started a little batch, I put in one part feed and two parts water. I'll check on it in about an hour to see how it is. Will a towel over the top of the jar work? I will go back and start reading more of those threads tomorrow.

 

[Beekissed]

That will work just fine. Really no need to read those threads through....the FAQ site I gave you has most of the answers to most of the questions folks usually ask about FF: https://tikktok.wordpress.com/2014/04/13/fermented-feed-faq/

You can ask questions there or the big threads I gave you and you'll get pretty prompt answers from folks who are fermenting all the time.

 

[Sutremaine]

I have read so often that the water level needs to stay above the level of the green. I think it was because mold would grow on top if there wasn't a layer of water.

Leaving water on top keeps oxygen out, favouring the organisms you want. They only need a little air. I started by keeping the mix underwater and draining it off, but now I've got the hang of it I use one bucket with a couple of holes in the bottom. There is a second bucket beneath that, holding some ferment liquid in reserve should I empty the top bucket too much. You can start with submerged feed if you don't mind taking the time to drain it, but keeping it at serving consistency is simpler.

Once you have an active fermentation going, keeping the lid on the bucket will also help keep oxygen out. Fermentation eventually produces carbon dioxide, which is heavier than air and will stay in the bucket until you take the top off. It's pretty neat how a lively culture alters its surroundings to suit itself and keep competitors out.

I haven't seen anything mould-like since I switched to a drier mixture. The wet stuff generated either creamy gunk on top of the liquid, or a pale grey sprinkling on any feed that expanded above water level (this got stirred back in, having no particular smell). The sides of the bucket can get bits of dried feed stuck to them, but you can scrape this back down with your serving spoon.

I'm not convinced that you need ACV with the mother. I started with just rainwater and feed, have continued that way, and haven't needed to start fresh since I made the first mix a few months ago. I think ACV helps keep the pH down, but even "spiced non-brewed condiment" will do that.