Suggestions for new LGD and current dog fighting

[Tigertrea]

I totally agree with getting professional help. What I would do is work with each dog individually. Whoever it is that they seem to fight around should be working with the dogs. I would be doing daily obedience with each of them to ensure they both know that humans are boss, not dogs. No matter their individual pecking order they are still below all humans in rank. I have had some of my dogs fight. My males fight when a female is in season and my females fight when one of them get cranky. I rarely have intersex fights.

I DO get between them. Rarely at first, when introducing a new dog, but after they seem to have established rank between themselves I step in and break up any fights that happen when I am around. Having sledding Huskies sometimes the lead dogs will be challenged by others. If any of us are there we break it up. I don't care who started it, We finish it. We are the leaders so we "choose" rank of the others.

I also agree that you should have someone come out to your place. They can see the interactions between the 2 better.

good luck! Glad you realize there is an issue to fix. so many people do not.

 

[centrarchid]

I have seem similar within our kennel of black and tan coonhounds (group used for hunting foxes) when they were able to interact a lot as a group of ten or so individuals. Most were intact unless deemed for certain not to be good for breeding. Upon adulthood at approximately 2 years, all adult males rank higher than all adult females, just like with with wolves. For males approaching adulthood, it was a bit rough as they had to whip or at least out bluff each adult female. Your dog is a slow maturing breed at about 1 year with near adult dimensions but not behavior. In most instances it was bluffing as females had nothing to gain by dominating a larger male as far as I could tell. Some females, especially those that hiked leg up when urinating tended to fight males more (possibly higher testosterone?).

Fights between females were the most nasty as they were fighting for breeding privilages more than males which is likely a carry over from wolves where usually only the dominant female produces a litter that survives, especially when resources where tight. With the hounds all females could breed but higher ranking females would, if given chance, kill den bound pups of lower ranking females pretty quick, just like with wolves and other large pack dwelling wild dogs.

Males of highest rank did not have exclusive mating privelages with females in heat. They did have privelages when she was most likely to conceive but could otherwise tie with her if she allowed. Higher ranking males also got the best eats.

 

[cafarmgirl]

Part of the problem is, as you stated, your older dog views everything, including you, as hers. This is actually not a good thing. Dogs need to know that everything is YOURS! She views everything, people, place and animals as hers and she is not about to let some young whipper snapper lay claim to any of it.

With my dogs, I lay down the law, they have their hierarchy, older ones correct the younger ones, but I don't tolerate any all out attacks or fighting and they know it. Everything here is mine, their job is to work and guard.

With your older dogs age, mindset, willingness to attack and the new dogs willingness to fight back, I agree with other post's that suggest getting a trainer to help. One of them could get seriously hurt if this continues.

 

[centrarchid]

Part of the problem is, as you stated, your older dog views everything, including you, as hers.

Could also be a version of monkey politics where both parties in contention (dogs) consider your to have their back when conflicts arise. You increase confidence, sadly for both parties and fight ensues.

 

[ttclan]

With my two, I always gave deference to my older female....they both had to lie down quietly before being fed, then older dog fed first, junior dog fed second. When greeted by me, older dog got first greeting and affection, junior dog got it secondly. I allowed the older female to "correct" the younger male when he encroached her space during eating but never more than a growl and lunge...anything more aggressive was immediately corrected by me.

In this manner, they seemed to work out that she was always dominant when I was not there and he learned subordination to us both. Could be he was just a submissive dog anyway but this worked well to keep her from treating him like an intruder into our family unit. They became great work partners and lived and guarded livestock together for the next 5 years without any trouble at all.

We've been given this advice from more than one person.

Quote:
I think I may not have helped the first day of having him, I see now, a couple of things I didn't do well when we first got him him. I didn't give attention to her first and put him beside me too fast allowing him her place once - it was subtle, but definitely something I realize looking back. We have since rectified this by feeding her first, letting her out first, making sure she has the same love and attention she had before and being firm on her position by my side in all situations. I have been working with him when she's in the house instead of right in front of her.

That and I've actually been praying for the coyotes to come to give them a common goal of working together to chase them off! LOL

but alas...I hear them off in the distance and they aren't coming around lately.

I really do appreciate all the help and suggestions. We'll try the leash thing too, with each of us having one of them. One of us has been walking the border with him and there's no reason we can't walk her with us...she's border trained really well, but it can't hurt to take her and give her a refresher.

For what it's worth as an update:

By last night it seemed like he might be getting tired of this...he backed down several times. I am still going to call our old trainer tomorrow and see if he is willing to come up here and see them together. He knows our Rottie already so that's a help. And he's a really good trainer...used to be a horse whisperer actually and took it into dog training. He has LGD's himself so I hope he can help with this also.


Thank you all again for the suggestions.

I really am expecting we can work this out, the breeder is watching and waiting to see what will happen. Colorado Mountain Dogs are relatively new, so they are watching all the 3rd and 4th generation pups to see what happens personality and protection traits, etc. They are waiting to see how this will work out as well...turns out his father has been showing little signs of aggression lately...

 

[Beekissed]

I'd keep my distance too if I were a coyote! Big dogs, big teeth, already in the mood for a fight....

 

[ttclan]

Quote:

I'd keep my distance too if I were a coyote! Big dogs, big teeth, already in the mood for a fight....

That is the whole point...not to mess with any of my animals...

I suppose it is ONE way to keep them from coming around, although, not the preferred method!

 

[Bear Foot Farm]

Quote: A true LGD shouldn't be associating with other dogs.
It should be confined with the livestock

 

[laura877]

I have worked with/trained many dogs and when I started following Cesar Milan's way of trianing, it stepped my training up another level.

I would try to convince Cesar Milan to come out and show you whats going on and how to deal with it. You have dogs that fighting because each wants to be pack leader with you guys as part of their packs. That why they fight when you come around. I would suggest that you start watching Dog Whisper, go to his site and read, get his books and read and get ready to be the dominant one around.

Some excerises that you could start with now are try taking one dog at a time for a walk. Do not allow the dog to walk in front of you. Put their collar on just behind their ears, not down lower on their neck. When the dog gets ahead of you, pull it to the side, not back. If you have to put your foot in front of them as you are walking to let them know they are to follow. If this is difficult, carry a long stick, a badminton racket, something that you can handle easily, and put it up in front to them to let them know they are to stay back behind you. Don't hit them, just block them. Take them threw gate, doorways, etc and don't let them go first. If they do, take them back and repeat the lesson that you are going thru the doorway first. Keep repeating until they get they are supposed to be behind you. Don't use their name when they perform badly. That is a reward. Do this training with each dog separately.

I also want to stress that all this needs to be done calmly and patiently...no yelling, no frustration coming out, no hurrying. This is extrememly important.

This kind of pack leader training should not take away from the LGD ability or drive to guard and do what they were bred to do. I hope some of this will help you.

 

[watchdogps]

I really am expecting we can work this out, the breeder is watching and waiting to see what will happen. Colorado Mountain Dogs are relatively new, so they are watching all the 3rd and 4th generation pups to see what happens personality and protection traits, etc. They are waiting to see how this will work out as well...turns out his father has been showing little signs of aggression lately...

"Colorado Mountain dogs" are not a breed. They are a mixed breed. A labradoodle of the LGD world. I dont see why they did the cross, as it doesnt fulfill any needs the individual breeds that are in it do not fulfill.