Sultan hen walking backwards, lethargic??? (Video included)

[hyzenthlay]

Ok, I'm back. I posted last week about my 1 year old Sultan hen, who had been acting increasingly lethargic over a period of several weeks, until finally last week she was sitting in one spot all day, not bothering to leave the coop when I opened the door in the morning, etc. She had also started stumbling around, seeming to have pain or trouble walking. She also seemed to lose weight and wasn't seeking out food, but was eager to eat if I put food right in front of her. I have given her a lot of treatments, but she's still basically the same. Still lethargic, sitting in one spot, but the one big update is that she mostly only walks backwards. If I put her in an open area, she'll stumble backward about 10-15 steps, then come to rest. If I put her in the XL dog crate where I've had her in quarantine, she backs up until her tail feathers are pressed against the bars, then stops.

Here is the video from today. The few steps she takes forward here were the only ones I've seen in days--otherwise she has been walking backward.

Last week, after getting advice here, I found that she had a mild case of bumble foot (almost healed by the time we saw it) and probably scaly leg mite, although nowhere near as terrible as some cases I've seen online. We treated her for both of those things. For the mites, I hit her with a combination of Ivermectin and the gasoline and A&D remedy--also treated the legs of the whole flock and cleaned and dusted the coop.

Two days ago I noticed she had bright green poop for the first time. I read that is bile in the poop, which could be a sign of many things, including both malnutrition and infection and even coccidiosis. I started her on a Hail Mary cocktail of probiotics, Duramycin, corid, and electolytes, and gave her undiluted Nutridrench by syringe. At first I gave her he cocktail by syringe, too, but then i found she would drink eagerly if I sprinkled some mealworms in the water bowl. The green poop has stopped, but her original symptoms continue. She is on day 3 of the cocktail, and no obvious improvement other than normal poop returning. I plan to continue that course for 7-10 days. She still eats and drinks with enthusiasm, but only when I put it right under her beak.

I don't know what to do at this point. I have read that walking backward could be an early sign of wry neck or crook neck. I have also read that wry neck can be a result of brain injury due to vaulted skulls, such as in silkies. Are sultans also prone to vaulted skulls and wry neck? Does that sound like what she could have? I can start her on the blue egg brown egg regimen for that if it seems like the right diagnosis. Thanks for any thoughts or insight you may have!

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

In my experiences walking backwards can be a sign they can't see well. I would try trimming her crest short to see if it helps. If it's feet hurt from mites that could cause some backward walking as an attempt to get away from the pain.

Not eating well makes me think she can't see the food perhaps. Crested birds can be odd acting, whether it's from not being able to see as well, or because some can have brain damage due to vaulted skulls, they don't often act normal.

Another option is she's actually going blind, so check her eyesight by flicking your fingers towards her eyes to see if she reacts.

 

[hyzenthlay]

Thanks so much, @oldhenlikesdogs . Actually, her not being able to see well was my first thought, too, so the first thing I did about a week ago was to trim her crest so she could see better. Obviously from the video there's still plenty more I could cut back, and maybe I'll give that a try tomorrow. But when I trimmed it the first time, I did it so I could see her eyes at least as well as on my Polish hen, and the Polish doesn't have any problems getting around. The first trim didn't seem to make any difference--she only got worse after that, not better. I will try a few more things to test her vision. It does seem neurological to me in some way, but that's just my instinct, not because I've ever dealt with anything like this in a chicken before....

 

[oldhenlikesdogs]

I have an older d'uccle rooster who is mostly blind. He backs up a lot and will often high step when he's entering the shed because it's darker. If her vision seems good than I might go back to the thought that her feet and legs are uncomfortable enough that it causes her to back away to attempt to get away from the feeling.

I've never dealt with wry neck so I can't comment on that. I did have a vaulted skull silkie who got pecked multiple times on it and she was slow, during her shortened life, it's the main reason I don't keep silkies anymore, though I have polish.

 

[Wyorp Rock]

How is your hen?

I see you had another thread addressing Bumblefoot and Scaly Leg Mites for the same bird. Any updated photos of the bottom of the foot and the legs?

I started her on a Hail Mary cocktail of probiotics, Duramycin, corid, and electolytes, and gave her undiluted Nutridrench by syringe. She is on day 3 of the cocktail, and no obvious improvement other than normal poop returning. I plan to continue that course for 7-10 days

Have you added any new chickens to your flock within the last 30days?
Any swelling of the hocks?
What dosage of Duramycin are you using?

It's possible that she may be having problems seeing well, so trimming more around the eyes would be worth a try.

From the video, it looks neurological to me. Walking backwards can be a symptom of Vitamin E deficiency, head injury/trauma and certain diseases (Marek's, Avian Lymphoid Leukosis, Newcastles).

I'm a fan of Poultry Nutri-Drench, but if what's going on with your girl is a Vitamin E deficiency, imho, the Nutri-Drench doesn't have enough E in it. It would be better to
give Vitamin E400 IU daily. Selenium helps with the absorption of E so offer some eggs, tuna, or crushed nuts. B Vitamins may be helpful as well, this can be added by crushing a human B-Complex vitamin and adding it to her feed.

Electrolytes are fine for a few days, especially when a bird is heat stressed. Personally I would eliminate them.

Just my thoughts.

 

[rebrascora]

From your video and description, my thoughts were blindness and neurological imbalance too, although if she has become malnourished as a result of not being able to find the feeder from the reduced vision, she could just be uncoordinated due to weakness.
Have you had any problems with Marek's in your flock or added any new birds in recent months? My concern would be that Marek's is causing both the blindness and poor coordination/walking backwards. Your best course of treatment is what has been suggest with vitamins and good nutrition and I have nothing to add to that apart from wishing you luck with her.

Regards

Barbara

 

[jvls1942]

my first gut reaction was blindness also.
my second thought was a severe cold causing inner ear problems with balance.
cayenne pepper might help if this is the case.
chickens do not get the heat from pepper like humans do.
.....jiminwisc......

 

[hyzenthlay]

How is your hen?

I see you had another thread addressing Bumblefoot and Scaly Leg Mites for the same bird. Any updated photos of the bottom of the foot and the legs?

She seems the same today--no better, no worse.

I can try to grab some pics of her feet and legs. Her foot looks good to me, definitely on the mend, I think. Her leg scales still look wonky, but I expect those would take some time to improve.

Have you added any new chickens to your flock within the last 30days?

Not the last 30 days, but about 9 weeks ago I added new chicks. This Sultan and all my other birds have been vaccinated for Mareks at the hatchery, but the new chicks most likely were not. I added 6 chicks. One turned out to be a rooster and found a new home a few weeks ago. Another ended up having severe crossbeak and died at 4 weeks despite best efforts. The remaining 4 chicks are healthy and vigorous.

Any swelling of the hocks?

I don't think her hocks look swollen, but they are a bit red on the bottom--I assume from her sitting in the same place all day except for when I'm messing with her. I have her in a XL dog crate outside during the day (I figured that was safe from daytime predators--mostly hawks here--and less depressing for her than the basement), on a bed of straw (the crate has a wire bottom and I wanted to be sure she had something soft to lay on, no pressure points). I remove any soiled straw each day and make sure it's clean and dry. I also go out and move her to a new spot several times a day, and make her stand up and walk a bit--I think she wouldn't move all day otherwise.

What dosage of Duramycin are you using?

I don't have it in front of me, but I believe it is Duramycin 10 powder, 1tbs per gallon of water. I was giving her a 2-3 ccs of the medicated water cocktail twice a day by syringe (the water also has the corid, probiotic powder, and vitamin/electrolyte powder in it), until I found that she would drink it happily if I put dried mealworms in the water to entice her.

It's possible that she may be having problems seeing well, so trimming more around the eyes would be worth a try.

I think I will do this today--probably can't hurt.

From the video, it looks neurological to me. Walking backwards can be a symptom of Vitamin E deficiency, head injury/trauma and certain diseases (Marek's, Avian Lymphoid Leukosis, Newcastles).

I agree it seems more neurological than like something mechanical (sore feet, etc.). The idea of Marek's scares me--I'm hoping it's not that, since she was vaccinated, and the only non-vaccinated birds I have seem very healthy--although I know that's probably not a guarantee. The one thing I think is even more encouraging in ruling out Marek's is that she doesn't have any of the paralysis symptoms I've seen described online. You can see in the video she is using both legs equally, not dragging one, and I can say for sure her wings are strong--she flaps like the dickens when I try to flip her over to examine her underside. I haven't read anything about the other two diseases you mentioned--I'll have to look into it. Best case scenario for this girl, I am hoping it could be a vitamin deficiency--and I will start treatment for that--but second best case in my mind is that she had a traumatic brain injury, because I really don't like the idea that it could be a communicable disease introduced to the flock....

I'm a fan of Poultry Nutri-Drench, but if what's going on with your girl is a Vitamin E deficiency, imho, the Nutri-Drench doesn't have enough E in it. It would be better to
give Vitamin E400 IU daily. Selenium helps with the absorption of E so offer some eggs, tuna, or crushed nuts. B Vitamins may be helpful as well, this can be added by crushing a human B-Complex vitamin and adding it to her feed.

This is very helpful, thank you. I plan to pick the E, B, and Selenium up later today. I also read on the brown egg blue egg site about giving prednisone for wry neck. I realized I happen to have some leftover human prednisone pills in the medicine cabinet, not yet expired, but they are 20mg tablets, and the brown egg blue egg site calls for 2.5mg twice a day. I can try to break these little bitty tablets into eighths, but the dosing will be fairly approximate--not sure how safe that is....

Electrolytes are fine for a few days, especially when a bird is heat stressed. Personally I would eliminate them.

I was continuing to give them because I wasn't sure if she was drinking much apart from when I sprinkled dried mealworms in the water and watched her, and I thought it would help prevent dehydration. Plus, the sav-a-chick has vitamins in it, too, so I figured that couldn't hurt. But if there's danger to prolonged usage, I can stop it and see how she does.

Just my thoughts.

Thank you!!!

 

[hyzenthlay]

From your video and description, my thoughts were blindness and neurological imbalance too, although if she has become malnourished as a result of not being able to find the feeder from the reduced vision, she could just be uncoordinated due to weakness.
Have you had any problems with Marek's in your flock or added any new birds in recent months? My concern would be that Marek's is causing both the blindness and poor coordination/walking backwards. Your best course of treatment is what has been suggest with vitamins and good nutrition and I have nothing to add to that apart from wishing you luck with her.

Regards

Barbara

Thank you, Barbara! I am concerned about possible Marek's, too, per my comments in the post a moment ago. She is currently quarantined, but I know it's highly contagious, so if she has it I will have to assume the others were all exposed before I pulled her out of the flock. I am going to try the vitamin route and hope for the best, but if she ends up dying or if we have to euthanize her, I will definitely send her for a necropsy. Thank you very much for your words of wisdom and kind thoughts!

ETA:
Oh, wow. I just read on the BYC Marek's page that it is possible to do a blood test for Marek's. I will check with my vet to be sure they are able to do that. I already made an appointment for her, but the earliest they could see her is on Monday. It would be great to be able to rule Marek's in or out without poor Snowdrop having to die first and get a necropsy....

 

[hyzenthlay]

my first gut reaction was blindness also.
my second thought was a severe cold causing inner ear problems with balance.
cayenne pepper might help if this is the case.
chickens do not get the heat from pepper like humans do.
.....jiminwisc......

I hadn't heard of inner ear problems in chickens, but someone on Facebook mentioned that, too. I will have to read up more on this....