Sumatra Thread!

[Infnityhrt]

I think the bantams and large fowl should be bred to meet the standard weight, this is one of my pet peeves where breeders and judges seem to think smaller is better in the bantams and larger is better in the large fowl, In the standard they shouldn't be more or less than 20% of their stated weight, yet I have seen large fowl that should be 8lbs and they are 12lbs and winning. Why have weights in the standard if you are not going to follow them. Sumatras are not suppose to be big heavy birds, and yet you see some heading that way, getting heavier than they should be, In the standard they should be 5lbs maybe 6.. but I have seem Seen them climbing up to be closer to 8.. why is that better? Don't know. I like the slim slenderness and wild look that they should be, not the bigger breasted, shorter legged, longer heavy tail that they are headed for, Ok, well enough of my little rant LOL. I love this breed and we have been very successful in showing, but I get frustrated when I see this and so many other breeds being placed when they don't meet the standard in weight

 

[cubakid]

The problem I had with the bantams is that they were too big and smaller is closer to standard

 

[championsumatra]

yes that is what I was trying to say you do not want a sumatra bantam being big. Cubakid is right it dose say in the standard of perfection that a small sumatra banatm is closer to the standard. my sumatras are big but they are not as big 8lbs or 12lbs but if you are going to breed large fowl might as well make them big. Not as big as 8lds or even 12lbs that is very big. And one more thing to point out is a sumatra is in it's own class, a sumatra is not a game and it dose not say anywhere in the standard of perfection that a sumatras body type should be game like they ones where wild but things have change when the standard of perfection came out it's not a bad thing to be breeding sumatras to look wild and game like but I am not for it only because I show mine a lot and I have talked to a lot of the judges and some old time sumatra breeders and they tell me not to breed them like that for the shows. sorry if I have insulted anyone... but it is true.

 

[gallo4319]

i understand why must of the judges want a docile bird no matter what the breed is.
poultry show is a family thing .
And none wants a wild crazy chicken attacking you.

 

[championsumatra]

the behavor has nothing to do with what I am saying. I am saying that the body type should not look game like. the way the bird looks has nothing to do with how tame or non tame it is.

 

[Boggy Bottom Bantams]

problem I have with that, is it appears we have changed the breed to our liking and not kept with what the bird originally was, a game bird. Pretty much standard in America or not, that's not what you should breed for the breeds sake. Not saying they arent nice, I like both versions. BUT an attempt should be made to breed a breed to it's original form. If you breed away from it, that's fine, but to standardize a changed up remake just for the sake of it, well it's not right. They should be a leggy gamey looking breed if you want a true to form sumatra, period... All others might as well be another breed. If you were to put an American show sumatra next to a bird running around on it's native island, they would look nothing alike type wise. See the bantams getting shorter legged all the time. Why? Someone liked it. Why? Makes the tail look bigger and better... Is it true to the native form, nope... And, I know a lot of judges as well. They are getting tired of it out this way they say and an over all effort is under way to get back to the more native type looking birds. May never happen. But I have been hearing a lot of stir about it on many forums. Especially the long tail related groups....
Anyway, Like wise, no intent to step on any ones toes or offend anyone. But a show Sumatra and a true natural form Sumatra are NOT the same any more. A sumatra is a game fowl, that's what they were bred for, fighting. Yes they no longer practise that and we have classed then as ornamental. That doesnt matter, they are still a game bird. Were created back in the day as such. They actually stem from breedings of the extinct Sumatra Jungle Fowl.

 

[chickletteSarge]

problem I have with that, is it appears we have changed the breed to our liking and not kept with what the bird originally was, a game bird. Pretty much standard in America or not, that's not what you should breed for the breeds sake. Not saying they arent nice, I like both versions. BUT an attempt should be made to breed a breed to it's original form. If you breed away from it, that's fine, but to standardize a changed up remake just for the sake of it, well it's not right. They should be a leggy gamey looking breed if you want a true to form sumatra, period... All others might as well be another breed. If you were to put an American show sumatra next to a bird running around on it's native island, they would look nothing alike type wise. See the bantams getting shorter legged all the time. Why? Someone liked it. Why? Makes the tail look bigger and better... Is it true to the native form, nope... And, I know a lot of judges as well. They are getting tired of it out this way they say and an over all effort is under way to get back to the more native type looking birds. May never happen. But I have been hearing a lot of stir about it on many forums. Especially the long tail related groups....
Anyway, Like wise, no intent to step on any ones toes or offend anyone. But a show Sumatra and a true natural form Sumatra are NOT the same any more. A sumatra is a game fowl, that's what they were bred for, fighting. Yes they no longer practise that and we have classed then as ornamental. That doesnt matter, they are still a game bird. Were created back in the day as such. They actually stem from breedings of the extinct Sumatra Jungle Fowl.

this is why i love this breed! not for its looks it has now but for its heritage! love the old breeds!!!

 

[gallo4319]

the behavor  has nothing to do with what I am saying. I am saying that the body type should not look game like. the way the bird looks has nothing to do with how tame or non tame it is.  

Behavior from my point of view has a lot to do with the breed (Sumatra)
i do agree with you when you said they shouldn't look game.
What Some records said about sumatras
Is that they should be alert(wild like) appearance should be pheasant like.
Not short legged , not dragging trail .
For poultry enthusiast (chicken show)
The docile the better they want birds easy to handle for the whole family safety.

 

[SumatraBantam]

problem I have with that, is it appears we have changed the breed to our liking and not kept with what the bird originally was, a game bird. Pretty much standard in America or not, that's not what you should breed for the breeds sake. Not saying they arent nice, I like both versions. BUT an attempt should be made to breed a breed to it's original form. If you breed away from it, that's fine, but to standardize a changed up remake just for the sake of it, well it's not right. They should be a leggy gamey looking breed if you want a true to form sumatra, period... All others might as well be another breed. If you were to put an American show sumatra next to a bird running around on it's native island, they would look nothing alike type wise. See the bantams getting shorter legged all the time. Why? Someone liked it. Why? Makes the tail look bigger and better... Is it true to the native form, nope... And, I know a lot of judges as well. They are getting tired of it out this way they say and an over all effort is under way to get back to the more native type looking birds. May never happen. But I have been hearing a lot of stir about it on many forums. Especially the long tail related groups....
Anyway, Like wise, no intent to step on any ones toes or offend anyone. But a show Sumatra and a true natural form Sumatra are NOT the same any more. A sumatra is a game fowl, that's what they were bred for, fighting. Yes they no longer practise that and we have classed then as ornamental. That doesnt matter, they are still a game bird. Were created back in the day as such. They actually stem from breedings of the extinct Sumatra Jungle Fowl.

Wow, you are so right. I have a Sumatra show bantam, and she doesn't have long legs. In fact, she hardly looks gamey, except for her small size and oversized tail. You have inspired me to breed for longer legs in Sumatra bantams.

 

[gallorojo]

This picture was posted on the facebook Sumatra club. It's not my bird!! The name of the poster is a Malay name so I assume he is from somewhere in or around Indonesia. Now this is a gamey type Sumatra!!