Sumatra Thread!

[stonykill]

Guess it just depends on what genes your sumatras are carrying, In the 9 years I've bred my line I get 100% black when breeding black to black.

I'm pretty sure that is more rare than hens teeth. I can't even begin to imagine why anyone would want all blacks anyway.

 

[ramirezframing]

I have only gotten blacks or duns outta mine no blues here either

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

genetics. Just how it works. Breed black on black and expect at least 20% to be blue.

I have never ever ever heard of anyone anywhere get blue from breeding 2 blacks. It is pretty much impossible and anyone that knows anything about genetics will tell you so. Are you 100% certain that you don't just have a very dark blue? We have a bantam rooster that looks solid black but he is blue. I have talked to folks that have bred sumatras that have been showing birds since long before I was even thought of and they have told me how they introduced blues. There are no historical records of any blues before the 1950's and I'm sure that if there would have been blues when they were first imported or if they threw blues, there would be something written somewhere about it, like the 'red splash' rhode island reds that came about.

 

[stonykill]

I have never ever ever heard of anyone anywhere get blue from breeding 2 blacks. It is pretty much impossible and anyone that knows anything about genetics will tell you so. Are you 100% certain that you don't just have a very dark blue? We have a bantam rooster that looks solid black but he is blue. I have talked to folks that have bred sumatras that have been showing birds since long before I was even thought of and they have told me how they introduced blues. There are no historical records of any blues before the 1950's and I'm sure that if there would have been blues when they were first imported or if they threw blues, there would be something written somewhere about it, like the 'red splash' rhode island reds that came about.

historical records show blues since Sumatra's were found in 1850. Those records tell of MANY different colors in the wild. A few Americans decided way back when that only blacks were std. Which is why I won't show. I see you guys going back and forth on what judges want. Which in most cases has nothing to do with how a Sumatra actually is/was before Americans decided they could make a better Sumatra than nature could.
Google Sumatra's from the 1800's and if you look deep enough you will find a sight that has pages of a book when they were first "discovered". Yes most were black but in nature they NATURALLY came a variety of colors. A few Americans ruined that.

 

[Infnityhrt]

I don't want all blacks, that is why I got blues and duns to add in, otherwise I would just have blacks.

 

[flyingmonkeypoop]

But that still doesn't answer the question about getting blues from blacks. Sure, I can see some brassy birds show up from time to time but unless you have a blue bird, you can't get blues. Look at any other breed of chickens that is black, do they ever get random blues from breeding 2 blacks? No, because it can't happen due to how the genetics work. If it did, there would be blue australorps and blue javas coming from pure black pens. The color blue in this case showing up in a black flock has nothing to do with showing birds, it is just a basic understanding of simple genetics.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk but I only argue when I know I'm right.

 

[cieraphoto]

I've been breeding black Sumatras and black Cochins for ten years and I've never had a blue chick hatch. You can't get blue unless blue is present.

 

[championsumatra]

Infnityhrt I have been seeing a lot of short of backs in the sumatra's around me too. and the sad thing is that they are not aware that the sumatra's back is one of the most important parts. you will lose many points for not having a long back. and the shape of the head is a big one too you should see in the standard how much points they take off.

 

[stonykill]

But that still doesn't answer the question about getting blues from blacks. Sure, I can see some brassy birds show up from time to time but unless you have a blue bird, you can't get blues. Look at any other breed of chickens that is black, do they ever get random blues from breeding 2 blacks? No, because it can't happen due to how the genetics work. If it did, there would be blue australorps and blue javas coming from pure black pens. The color blue in this case showing up in a black flock has nothing to do with showing birds, it is just a basic understanding of simple genetics.

I don't mean to sound like a jerk but I only argue when I know I'm right.

It does answer it. Blues were present in the 1850's. It is a naturally occuring color in Sumatra's. As is red. It is in the initial writings. Yet SOP says black. Why? Because a couple of elitist guys sat around a table looking at caged chickens and decided what was best in a breed. Black won out and other colors were bred out. Now it could just be that my flock isn't as "doctored" as other peoples Sumatra's are. And are more like the inittial wild Sumatra's from Asia.
What about Sumatra's is "normal" compared to other chickens? Very little.


Out of 100's of hatches I had one broody, a black bred to a black roo hatch 100% black. Every other time I did that I got at least some blues. I really don't give a flying fart if you believe me. I know what happens with my birds. Maybe mine are just not a "Americanized" as all of yours.Not as screwed up. More like hey were "discovered". I don't know, don't care as I know what I see happen time and time again.

 

[championsumatra]

I get strange results when I breed my sumatra's. I bred a bark blue with a black and 100% came out black an they had very good green sheen to them. I mixed the colors when I hatched out the chicks and most of them where blue. I don't have the space to not keep the colors from breeding with one another which is a same I only have one breeding coop. but I do make sure that I put 7 roosters in with them. to get the colors right I know if you breed to much of the blue with the black it will dull the green sheen and the black color. and if you breed splash with blue you will lose the lacing as well as can make a self blue sumatra.