Sumatra Thread!

[stonykill]

No..

Earth genetics just dont work that way, not even on recessive genes, the Blue found on Sumatras is the same andalusian blue found on just about every other chicken breed in the world, now I know Sumatras are not your normal chickens, Yet they still have to follow Mendelian's Laws, not only them, but every living organism alive.


so unless I'm missing something here, like a weird blue recessive gene, dont expect 20% blues from black to black mating.

not the exact 1800's book I was looking for but here. http://books.google.com/books?id=8m...#v=onepage&q=wild sumatra jungle fowl&f=false

It in this book specifically mention a Blue bird. But it does mention the white feathers, which are predominant in a Blue roosters tail. Alos note that other colors were FOUND but a few idiot idealistic men decided that black was best.

Sumatra's were in the wild NOT ALL BLACK. We did not create these other colors. They are natural to the breed.

SMH. Stubborn, stubborn. Reading history is a good thing

 

[redandalusian]

not the exact 1800's book I was looking for but here. http://books.google.com/books?id=8m...#v=onepage&q=wild sumatra jungle fowl&f=false

It in this book specifically mention a Blue bird. But it does mention the white feathers, which are predominant in a Blue roosters tail. Alos note that other colors were FOUND but a few idiot idealistic men decided that black was best.

Sumatra's were in the wild NOT ALL BLACK. We did not create these other colors. They are natural to the breed.

SMH. Stubborn, stubborn. Reading history is a good thing

No..

Earth genetics just dont work that way, not even on recessive genes, the Blue found on Sumatras is the same andalusian blue found on just about every other chicken breed in the world, now I know Sumatras are not your normal chickens, Yet they still have to follow Mendelian's Laws, not only them, but every living organism alive.


so unless I'm missing something here, like a weird blue recessive gene, dont expect 20% blues from black to black mating.

you wouldnt expect 20 percent blues from a black to black breeding but there could be some weird genetic behind this. I know that blue andalusians were originally created by crossing black fowl to white sports and stonykill mentioned blue sumatras whith white in their tail feathers. So mabey It is just a weird genetic inherited from wild black sumatras breeding to white sport sumatras. if there was any white sumatras.

 

[stonykill]

you wouldnt expect 20 percent blues from a black to black breeding but there could be some weird genetic behind this. I know that blue andalusians were originally created by crossing black fowl to white sports and stonykill mentioned blue sumatras whith white in their tail feathers. So mabey It is just a weird genetic inherited from wild black sumatras breeding to white sport sumatras. if there was any white sumatras.

FINALLY a thinker. Or my thoughts are these colors were in the wild because in the wilds of Sumatra they bred with OTHER jungle fowl. The attached literature mentions OTHER colors besides black in the wild. Americans sat down and decided that black was best. Then show breeder tried their best to breed OUT every other color. It isn't rocket science.


I prefer to follow these original writings. This is more representative with what Sumatra's ARE than what they have become.

 

[nicalandia]

you wouldnt expect 20 percent blues from a black to black breeding but there could be some weird genetic behind this. I know that blue andalusians were originally created by crossing black fowl to white sports and stonykill mentioned blue sumatras whith white in their tail feathers. So mabey It is just a weird genetic inherited from wild black sumatras breeding to white sport sumatras. if there was any white sumatras.

I guess for you guys sumatras are so weird and so wild that they need no follow mendelian laws,

 

[raph]

I understand stony kill said his blacks were producing blues, so who are you guys to be commenting. I think stony knows his own flock better then any of you.

And anything is possible, bear that in mind.

 

[stonykill]

Raph, yes, why are my results, that I document for myself in question? It is my flock. I have worked this flock for 5 plus years now. I know MY flock.

really???? We are going to discuss a 5% difference? I'm sure there is a margin of error that I am in.

A few times I have brought this up. EVERY time the same thing. NO ONE CARES what Sumatra's were when they were brought into America. The ONLY thing anyone care is what the std is. But by reading history we can see that Sumatra's were in many colors when "discovered". Yet everyone wants a trophy, so they breed to std.

I'm going to go out on a limb here. Breeding to STD is GREAT for a man made bird such as the RIR. They are a breed developed by man. Following that std makes sense. Now to offend everyone. Then I'll leave the thread forever. Taking a breed of chicken found in the wild in multiple colors, THEN chosing initially only ONE color as the std ruins the origins of the bird. Because at that point NO other color is acceptable to win a trophy. Therefore all "wrong" colors are killed. Only blacks were bred. "Off" color birds were eaten. This takes a breed and waters it down to one color. Do this for more than 100 years and suddenly the bird is no longer what it started out as. THIS is what I'm working to correct with MY flock. I am NOT trying to win a prize but to bring MY flock back to a closer resemblence to what the "original" Sumatra's were.

It saddens me that no one cares what Sumatra's originally were. Only thing that matters is having a perfect black. It saddens me that every time I bring it up I get attacked and told I'm WRONG with results I see from my own flock. Every one raises their OWN flock for their OWN reasons. I am annoyed that the way I chose to raise my flock and the results that I get are "wrong". Therefore I'm done.

Guys and girls enjoy your Sumatra's. Do with them what you will. They are your birds to raise as you see fit. Cross breed, breed them back, Idon't care as they are your birds. And I would NEVER question the results that you get from YOUR flock.

Take care. Outa here

 

[raph]

Any way what about white Sumatras we should talk about them, they are quite rare aren't they?

 

[redandalusian]

Any way what about white Sumatras we should talk about them, they are quite rare aren't they?

I had two white sumatra cockerals that i got from my uncle but they were nowhere near the standard and had high tails, red combs, and short legs and backs.

 

[championsumatra]

I want some white sumatra's that is so cool that they did a color like that

for a sumatra I mean

 

[nicalandia]

really???? We are going to discuss a 5% difference? I'm sure there is a margin of error that I am in.

5% difference is comprehensible, but be advise your blues behaves different from other blues, and yes understand that "original" sumatra may have been the same type of blue you are segregating out of your blacks, but todays blue sumatra(the ones I have seen) have a very different blue that behaves just like ordinary andalucian blues...

question for you, have you breed your blues with one another? or your blues back to black? will be interesting to find out if you have the "Old" blue found on "Old world" sumatras