Sumatra Thread!

[ramirezframing]

I have to agree, too big or too small should not place. I have seen this brought up several times with different breeds, and not just chickens. I have read and seen where this "fad breeding" has changed and in some chases brought about bad qualities in a breed. Take the quarter horse, one horse USE to be able to do it all. NOT any more, there's a few different types of quarter horses now, and some have bad feet because of this type of breeding. I read recently where in Europe, the "fad breeding" is changing their orpingtons to look more like a cochin without feathered shanks. This tends to happen when a judge places what he/she likes, might happen because the judge doesn't quit know the sop for that breed or because the "fad" has less wrong with it than the one that is of proper size. But its also the breeders fault for breeding that "fad" to get the win. If the breeders breed to the sop and not what "fad" is winning than the judges wont keep placing the "fad". "Fad" breeding is bad for anything. I would hope that a judge not up to the sop with a breed would look at the sop as they chose which is the best bird. I know that no judge can know every in and out of every breed, nor can the vice president or president of the poultry club. There's just too many breeds and variations and more coming for anyone one person to know.

I know a little about different things, but I am always up to learn something new. If I have a question, I'll ask it and not just from one source. I look in many places and make a judgment from what I find.



Just my 2 cents, not meant to make anyone mad or upset

 

[ramirezframing]

Raph if I remember right you said you got a RIR for your flock?? Is that him above?? Dose the RIR in Ireland have a different standard than ours? Ours have yellow legs, which is why I ask, just trying to learn something new

 

[Coop Scoop Boogie]

Again I have to agree that breeding in a different direction would help correct the "phase" that the poultry community is experiencing. Breeding to the judges linking is different than breeding to the standard.

I must agree...........either we follow a set standard or we breed to a judges
opinion of what is the perfect bird if they don't follow the standard. Without
a standard to try to achieve we would be at the mercy of someone's opinions.
Makes it hard for folks to breed and show.........then it's showing for ribbons
and not for the perfect bird of the breed because with no set guidelines
how could any bird be the perfect of the breed?

 

[raph]

Yeah that's the cockerel above, he is young so for a cockerel i don't know if he should have yellow legs at that age,( I was told the cockerel is about 2 months).
And wouldn't his legs get more yellow pigment as he starts to breed?
Don't get me wrong i want a nice RIR cockerel but he will just be breeding hybrids, so how he looks doesn't matter as much. Long as his off spring lay well its alright.

Remember stony kill?, is it me or our we ranting and getting into an argument again.

Any way how are you guys?

 

[Coop Scoop Boogie]

Yeah that's the cockerel above, he is young so for a cockerel i don't know if he should have yellow legs at that age,( I was told the cockerel is about 2 months).
And wouldn't his legs get more yellow pigment as he starts to breed?
Don't get me wrong i want a nice RIR cockerel but he will just be breeding hybrids, so how he looks doesn't matter as much. Long as his off spring lay well its alright.

Remember stony kill?, is it me or our we ranting and getting into an argument again.

Any way how are you guys?

It has been a wet and humid early summer here so far........ I'm
starting to wonder if the ducks will need to give swimming
lessons to the chickens.......just been raining that much

 

[Infnityhrt]

Well I am not going against it at all. I know for a fact that 5lbs is more bird than you think than a skinny tiny bird that is no bigger than a bantam is that how small your birds are because that is under weight. And not following the standard... Like I had said before stop thinking that you are the only ones who are following the standard I am and I go some good birds to prove it. They may be big but they are getting better and better every time I breed them.

You must learn you can't argue with fact, and its a fact written in the standard. I already said that starving a bird to 5 pounds is not the same as having a bird in good condition at 5 lbs and 5 pounds is over 3 pounds more than the bantam that is under 2 pounds (in case you didn't know it's 16 oz to a pound) so so a bantam cock is only suppose to weigh 1 1/2 pounds so I would think that that is a pretty significant difference and no one has mistaken my Sumatras for bantams, aren't you the one that said mine had to long of leg? ( the one I use for my pic) so they are definitely taller than the bantams and weigh about triple what my bantams do. My birds are 4 to 6 pounds, which is what the standard calls for, I have a couple of hens that are probably over the weight as well, but I don't say that is right, because the standard says it's not right, but I am not going to go round and round with you. You can breed them however you want to, I am just saying a 7 pound bird according to the Standard is too big, doesn't matter what your opinion is because it's not an interpretation, it's a fact.

 

[Infnityhrt]

Yeah that's the cockerel above, he is young so for a cockerel i don't know if he should have yellow legs at that age,( I was told the cockerel is about 2 months).
And wouldn't his legs get more yellow pigment as he starts to breed?
Don't get me wrong i want a nice RIR cockerel but he will just be breeding hybrids, so how he looks doesn't matter as much. Long as his off spring lay well its alright.

Remember stony kill?, is it me or our we ranting and getting into an argument again.

Any way how are you guys?

Sorry Raph, not really an argument, more just stating facts, and a little ranting. I am not angry when I do this, more hoping that the show world, won't ruin such a great bird and keep it more to what it is suppose to be, too many breeds get lost and changed till there is little resemblance to what they started out as, and I have noticed in the last 10 years since we have had them they have changed a lot, my pic I use is our rooster who 10 years ago was undefeated and took a couple of Top Large Fowl and Best in Show. He was regal, elegant, athletic he could definitely fly. Now when I go to shows I see these big heavy, I would almost say too much tail, it gets loose and the feathers curl in it. Not at all what they use to be. Sad, really, that they have fallen into the bigger is better and I have always hated that just because they are Large Fowl doesn't mean they should get huge, Most of the time the Large Fowl are the originals and the bantams are what is created, keep the originals, original, is what I think. Plus I get frustrated when we have a book that is suppose to be the Standard and yes, a lot is interpretation, but weight is fact and you can't argue with fact and yet people do what they want because no one enforces it. We learned when first starting out to breed to standard when my son wanted to do Sultans and a judge DQ'd for white earlobes, it was the only judge that did so, none of the others ever did, but I wouldn't let him breed them because we could never find any with the red earlobes. Most people do what they want though and unless the judges start doing DQing like it says, I mean how do you argue with a judge that DQ's your bird and it's says in the standard, that's why we have a standard, so we can't argue with the judges, they are doing there jobs, its more like when they aren't doing their jobs then you can argue. Interpretation can be an opinion and everyone can have one so you can see differences there, but not fact. Sorry I am rambling again
What kind of hybrids do you breed? a nice RIR will make for some great sex-link chicks

 

[zach N houdan]

i 100% agree with Champion Sumatra Farm my sumatras are from Tom Kernen too and they have never been DQ i have also clerked with many judges who have loved my birds along with Toms and have picked his for BIS and i have won a lot of junior awards including champion and reserve champion LF/bantam and BIS/RIS for juniors and Tom won the 2 largest shows on the east coast this year and reserve champion LF at the Southern Ohio national

 

[ramirezframing]

Raph over here they hatch with the yellow legs, like most yellow legged breeds its not something that develops at a later time. Wish you luck with him and lots of eggs from your girls. I got a mutt hen (a little sumatra and RIR and black sex link, maybe something else in there

) that in her younger years laid 3 or so double yolked eggs a week. Made it hard to hatch any of her eggs, but they sure tasted good. Now that she's a bit older, she has slowed down on the doubles. And like Infnityhrt said with the right hen/rooster combo you could make sexlinks.

 

[BGMatt]

Just a longtime poultryman weighing in on the size issue. Nobody is saying the bigger birds don't win, they do, the question is why? When breeding birds you have to choose between what wins and what the standard says, they SHOULD be the same but they aren't. Someone above mentioned the wyandotte bunny tails, I remember with Old English Game bantams for a while the only birds that won were ones with huge leghorn tails and huge chests, neither of which is called for in the standard.

Nobody should feel bad about winning, because conditioning, breeding, feeding etc all play a part, but y'all have to realize that winning birds may not be exactly the closest to standard. The trend is obviously for oversized birds right now, and since they don't weigh birds there's nothing stopping the birds from winning.

Everyone does this poultry thing for different reasons, if someone wants to try and breed with the trends and just wants to win, that's fine, usually those folks don't stay with one breed or even in the hobby for very long. Or breed to the standard, even if its not what's winning right now, when the trends change you'll be in better position. Might even surprise yourself, if the judges only see birds of one type that's all they can pick, bantam Rhode Island Reds I'm told are in this boat right now with the back line, most of what's shown is not correct, but when that's all there is to pick from that's what wins, when there's correct and incorrect then at least the judge has a chance to pick.

These cycles turn quicker than you think too, 10 years ago was the OEGB with the huge tails, huge chests, and the majority of the females should have been Disqualified for white ear lobes, these days I walk around those aisles (at least up here) and very few exaggerated tails and chests and almost no white earlobes on females. I would also note that for the most part it's totally different exhibitors as well.