Sumatra Thread!

[4Hgirl]

 

[ramirezframing]

Is that your daughters bird?

 

[4Hgirl]

Yes he was the only Sumatra. It was a tiny fun show. Only one AOS bird. My daughter was tickled to get best of breed. She doesn't know any better yet.

 

[ST3PH3N]

So I'm here at the NE bantam show in MA and showed 2 hens and my roo(hasn't grown tail completely back yet) and my younger hen took Reserve AOSB and then the judge got to a hen on the far said of the show which he must have forgotten and crossed all my stuff out and gave the award to that hen a bit bummed. That hen was kind of big and big head and wasnt even fanning its tail up. I missed the judging so maybe ill get a chance to ask him why after....

A big head is really good on a sumatra it brings out the full short round look and the beak is short and nicely curved. if the head is small it looks narrow and the beak is long and sometimes not round. judges tend to go for bigger birds.

I've had sumatras for over 10 years but until now have not been selectively breeding them per-se. I have never shown birds but am planning on showing sumatras for the first time next year. I had thought that the heads of my birds were a little large and I bought some MMcM birds to help with that. Next year I will breed 2 lines of hens (or 3 if I can still get some eggs from my oldest birds) including the MMcM hens and evaluate the offspring.

I would like your thoughts on the following birds, each are my own, focusing on critiquing the heads (feathers are still growing in from the moult). I know a while back we had this discussion and I'm not interested in starting an argument it would just be great to have your insight on my birds, I'm hoping to learn something and I will not disagree with you or push my own opinion, thanks!



Hen 1



Hen 2


Hen 2 close up



MMcM pullet close up


Here I've posted a Jungle Fowl hen for referencing what a wild birds head looks like. If the sumatra is supposed to be a close derivative of jungle fowl or a modern descendant of an extinct race of jungle fowl I just assumed that hens heads should look closer to this but I'd really love to hear your thoughts.


Grey Jungle Fowl pullet

 

[ramirezframing]

I've had sumatras for over 10 years but until now have not been selectively breeding them per-se. I have never shown birds but am planning on showing sumatras for the first time next year. I had thought that the heads of my birds were a little large and I bought some MMcM birds to help with that. Next year I will breed 2 lines of hens (or 3 if I can still get some eggs from my oldest birds) including the MMcM hens and evaluate the offspring.

I would like your thoughts on the following birds, each are my own, focusing on critiquing the heads (feathers are still growing in from the moult). I know a while back we had this discussion and I'm not interested in starting an argument it would just be great to have your insight on my birds, I'm hoping to learn something and I will not disagree with you or push my own opinion, thanks!



Hen 1



Hen 2


Hen 2 close up



MMcM pullet close up


Here I've posted a Jungle Fowl hen for referencing what a wild birds head looks like. If the sumatra is supposed to be a close derivative of jungle fowl or a modern descendant of an extinct race of jungle fowl I just assumed that hens heads should look closer to this but I'd really love to hear your thoughts.


Grey Jungle Fowl pullet

I know you didn't ask me but, I wouldn't get any shorter in the beak than hen #2. I would personally breed her to a rooster with a slightly longer beak, so that the chicks wouldn't end up with a gap between their beaks, like some cornish. Personally I like the MM pullet the best head and beak wise. Remember its not just a big round head your after, you want a round head with a shorter curved beak that fits the body. I have seen some with a big ole round rock head that just didn't fit the birds body. But doing some test breeding would tell you alot of what crosses throw what. Just my two cents. Good luck.

 

[ramirezframing]

Yes he was the only Sumatra. It was a tiny fun show. Only one AOS bird. My daughter was tickled to get best of breed. She doesn't know any better yet.

Glad she had fun, thats what matters.

 

[ST3PH3N]

I know you didn't ask me but, I wouldn't get any shorter in the beak than hen #2. I would personally breed her to a rooster with a slightly longer beak, so that the chicks wouldn't end up with a gap between their beaks, like some cornish. Personally I like the MM pullet the best head and beak wise. Remember its not just a big round head your after, you want a round head with a shorter curved beak that fits the body. I have seen some with a big ole round rock head that just didn't fit the birds body. But doing some test breeding would tell you alot of what crosses throw what. Just my two cents. Good luck.

Thanks ramirezframing! I appreciate your input -Stephen

 

[championsumatra]

ok I am going to give you my opinion. I do agree they need to have shorter beaks, but I also see that they look snake like. if you picture a round tennis ball on top of a neck that really helps me but I think the best way to do it is comparing your birds with others. I will let you compare your birds with mine.
Quote: ok so about the big head being to big for the body. The splash hen you see has one of the biggest heads out of all my female sumatras. It dose not look out of proportion at all. Every judge I ask goes crazy over her. I had one huge tell me that she was a ideal bird to show in the junior show.














p.s the splash female hates the camera she gets really scared very time she sees it. other than the pic she has a good tail angle.

 

[ST3PH3N]

Thank you for your reply championsumatra!

Quote:



Would you please clarify this for me so I know I'm not misunderstanding you. Did you mean that my hens pictured should have shorter beaks, or were you just making a general statement about sumatras? My hen number 2 has the largest head of my sumatras, and I can see what you mean about a large head making the beak look smaller, but do you think my hen's head is perfect, or too big/small?

Thanks again
-Stephen

 

[NYREDS]

So I did get a chance to speak with the judge. He was very friendly and kind compared to the judge at the last show that seemed pretty grouchy haha. But he explained 2 reasons which seemed fair. The head as Champion nailed it on the spot. My "winner" was young and he said should have been entered as a pullet not hen. The head has not filled in and the beak is more straight than the Strong curved look. Then their bk feathering. My older hen has a good head and beak but bk feathered on mine were a bit tattered. My younger hens feathers were thin and not the rounded out and smooth look that the winning hen had. He pulled the winner out and I ran my hand across its bk and it really was silkie smooth. The feathers were all so evenly well rounded and overlapping each other. I will definitely pay closer attention to that my next show-NE Poultry Congress in MA!

Hey, that was me!
The hen that ended up winning was seperated from the other Sumatras for some reason. Found her when I started judging the English Class so had to go back & redo the Sumatras. She was a far superior hen size was right & the other hen was quite small. As to all the comments about head size/shape & beak length/shape. Read the Standard-it's pretty specific about the Sumatrs beak. & head. "Short, stout,well curved" for the beak Short & round" for the head".