Summer scratch

[Kikiriki]

Chris09, my reading comprhension has been college level or above since I was in fourth grade. Perhaps the problem is yours, as I only posted one each article for beef and swine. I did it because it is relevent to the use of corn as livestock fattening finisher (which I had discussed and was supporting) and I included a poultry article as we are specifically discussing poultry. I explained why I used the horse information already: note (again) that I specifically said to ignore the digestion info. Everything else is specifically pertaining to poultry.

When did I ever say broiler needs and layer needs were the same? The articles discuss both and discuss needs during various growth stages.

And if you think what I posted supported what you said, it demonstates you did not read it all, or did not absorb anything you read that counters your existing beliefs. That is not your fault. It is very difficult to overcome our established information filters, and one has to realize they exist before they can be dismantled. Further, changing someone's mind once it has been made up is extraordinarily difficult, but I am stubborn and will persist. Plus, I want to provide full information for others who May read this thread.


Finally, if you are going to try to be insulting, I recommend you go for something other than intelligence (not bragging: it is simply fact I was blessed with a great combination of genes and environment resulting in being scary smart), so at least base your insults on truth, like, "kikiriki, you are an astoundingly stubborn witch with very poor typing.". Ha ha!

 

[Chris09]

In your last post you posted 5 links that referring to Broilers,

Referring to Broilers
http://japr.fass.org/content/6/3/290.full.pdf
http://philjournalsci.dost.gov.ph/vol135no1/pdf/feeding%20and%20economic%20evaluation%20of%20corn%20etc.pdf
http://www.tysonfoods.com/About-Tyson/Live-Production/Chicken.aspx
http://www.canadianpoultry.ca/heat_stress.htm
http://adlib.everysite.co.uk/resources/000/109/279/Poultry_heat_stress05.pdf
Referring to Beef
http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100510151350.htm
Referring to Swine
http://jas.fass.org/content/82/2/571.full



Quote: I dint know that this was a typing class. I hope I remember to use "proper" typing in my next post.

On another note,


Quote: Which not Witch

See, I can nit-pick also.

Chris

 

[Chris09]

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[Kikiriki]

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Chris, I dont make statements without support for it. If I am not sure of my information I am the type of person who has no problem saying so, and if i do not know something I research and ask questions and never claim that I know it.
I can remember where on a page I read a phrase, and where in the book it was, and on which facing page.
When I say I am smart, it is based upon my school grades, testing results, and work experience. I have an IQ that is on the far right of that bell curve, test in the high nineties in every subject, graduated at the top of my class, and at work I saved a multi multi million dollar piece of equipment because I argued with an engineer until he I made him see what was wrong, and I had to do this while 7 coworkers told me I was wrong (which I was not).
I am not the smartest person I know and I certainly do not claim to know everything. I am not the most talented person I know. I am not the most capable or skilled. But I spent a good deal of my life trying to hide how smart I am because I just wanted to blend in and fit in. I no longer care about that because I am not responsible for my ability, it was a gift and I appreciate it.

I went to heat stress articles because they fit the discussion: corn as a feed in scratch, temperature, calorie use, and nutrient requirements were what were being discusssed. i said at the beginning that corn is high calorie food, that calorie requirement is less than summer than in winter, that corn is good for putting fat on animals, and fat makes heat harder to handle as well as causing other health issues.

I supported every point of this with documents. Now you want to nitpick and argue that some were specific to broilers? So what is wrong with that when I was discussing how corn is used for rapid weight gain! Broilers are the birds with the most rapid growth and the ones that are most studied for their weight gain, carcass weight and fat/protein percentages, and the ones that get fed finisher! (By the way, high corn content was also discussed for its benefit in creating fat cells in chicks up to a week old which adds to their weight gain and carcass weight and fat percentage when given a finisher feed before slaughter).

Finally, I always admit when I am wrong...Chris I am NOT wrong.

 

[Kikiriki]

In your last post you posted 5 links that referring to Broilers, Referring to Broilers http://japr.fass.org/content/6/3/290.full.pdf http://philjournalsci.dost.gov.ph/vol135no1/pdf/feeding%20and%20economic%20evaluation%20of%20corn%20etc.pdf http://www.tysonfoods.com/About-Tyson/Live-Production/Chicken.aspx http://www.canadianpoultry.ca/heat_stress.htm http://adlib.everysite.co.uk/resources/000/109/279/Poultry_heat_stress05.pdf Referring to Beef http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2010/05/100510151350.htm Referring to Swine http://jas.fass.org/content/82/2/571.full

kikiriki, you are an astoundingly stubborn witch with very poor typing

I dint know that this was a typing class. I hope I remember to use "proper" typing in my next post. On another note,

stubborn witch with very poor typing

Which not Witch See, I can nit-pick also. Chris

I said "witch" because this is a family forum and the same word with the W replaced by a letter that sounds like the name of a pollinating insect would not be polite. I do know myself and have no problem admitting the truth! I also try to have a sense of humor about it. I am a stubborn witch, but it has come in handy.

 

[cafarmgirl]

Oh good grief! How about if we just say that if you want to feed scratch in the summer do it, if not don't and let's let it go already!

It doesn't take a degree in rocket science to feed chickens and most of us don't feed a scratch only diet to our laying hens. It is used sparingly as a treat. I've done this for too many years and have never had a chicken overheat in summer because it ate a little scratch each day. I'm sure if chickens were fed a corn only diet you'd see all kinds of health issues including being over weight and not being as efficient at cooling on hot days. But that does not appear to be the original point of this thread.

 

[Kikiriki]

Cagirl, . OP did ask about replacing corn in scratch depending on season and conversation took off from there.

Starter and grower both have a high percentage of corn (over 50% is what research says is typical although i could not find specific brand formulas) and adding more corn in the scratch is not ideal for people who live in high heat and humidity. Here in florida summer is like living under a wet wool blanket steaming in an oven. I want to give my chickens whatever advantage against the heat and humidity they can get. (I have even considered running a trunk off my AC for them!)

People do not feed their chickens as is advised by the research. It says if you are using starter grower to not feed scratch at all. It is a complete food and scratch provides no benefit.

To us, we like our chickens to have a more natural and happy chicken life, of which scratching is a big part, right? But what we are doing is changing the nutritional balance, so it does make a difference what the components of the scratch are.


And I'm sorry you seem to be annoyed at the posts. You are correct that people are going to do what they want. But if they want to learn something they can use all the links and increase their knowledge to help make decisions, instead taking the advice suggesting throwing out a book because someone disagrees with it.

Finally, the next time someone says you are not knowlegeable or capable of understanding what you are reading, and are providing unfounded information, are you going to let it go? If so, good for you, but that is not acceptable to me and I hope you can understand that. I lived a life where I was marginalized and ignored based only on my gender and reacted with patience and by proving my value by working twice as hard as my male counterparts. I am now almost fifty years old and out of patience. I will defend myself, my beliefs, my knowledge, my conclusions, and my ability. And if someone says I have no supporting documents, they will get them.

Best,

Kikiriki

 

[hemet dennis]

To the O.P. if you're feeding a lot of scratch then switch if it's a treat don't bother. Are you going to feed enough to add fat to them ?
Someone asked what did the old farmers feed their chickens, well mostly they didn't feed them much in the summer. Just like the guy that free ranges 300 chickens he said the feed consumption goes down in summer, well I think they eat more bugs and such in summer.
If you don't have them in commercial cages and are raising them commercially then most of those studies are irrelevant.

 

[Gigiintheforest]

Oh good grief! How about if we just say that if you want to feed scratch in the summer do it, if not don't and let's let it go already!

It doesn't take a degree in rocket science to feed chickens and most of us don't feed a scratch only diet to our laying hens. It is used sparingly as a treat. I've done this for too many years and have never had a chicken overheat in summer because it ate a little scratch each day. I'm sure if chickens were fed a corn only diet you'd see all kinds of health issues including being over weight and not being as efficient at cooling on hot days. But that does not appear to be the original point of this thread.

So agree with you, cafarmgirl. This started off as a really nice discussion but has disintegrated. Think I will move on.

 

[MyTDogs]

Speck- can you post the ingredient list? Do you know what the pellets are? I found the mfg web site but it doesn't list the ingredients (that I can see). Unfortunately they do not have a distributor down here in FL.

Well, all that aside, chickens shouldn't eat a big percentage of scratch anyway to knock out a portion of their layer feed.
You solve your perceived scratch issue by feeding a higher quality scratch year round, as I do, by using one like KnockOut Game Bird Feed, which is 12% protein, and has 11 grains in it.

This is what I use as scratch, day in, day out, year round: