Supplementing protein during winter (Southern NH)

[aidan47]

Is giving 22% meat food to laying hens during the winter okay?

During late December- early January, we had a lot of problems with pecking, with one of our hens being plucked bare on her lower back. We got her an apron and started feeding our laying hens 22% meat bird food instead of their usual 16% layer, in hopes that the plucking was caused by lack of protein from foraging during the winter. About a month later, and we've had no other pecking problems so far! I'm here to ask if this is a sustainable solution until Spring comes, or is it something that we should avoid doing in future Winters. Thank you!

 

[Jeanw]

Hello, I’m not sure if feeding laying hens meat bird food is ok as a temporary feed but my understanding is that a good quality 16% layer feed is sufficient. You may try to supplement layer feed feed with mealworms or black soldier fly larvae, and occasional scrambled or hard boiled eggs.

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I think that's too high. 17 or 18% would be better. A bit of animal protein a couple times a week should help with the pecking. Perhaps some canned mackerel a couple times a week as a treat - or any meat.
If your temps are close to zero F, a little more scratch would be advisable.
Too much protein overworks the liver and kidneys.
16% is adequate for eating eggs but not enough for breeders. It doesn't pack enough essential amino acids in the hatching eggs.
The breeder feed I used to get was 17% but 18% wouldn't hurt. If you can't get that in a layer feed, you can get it in a starter, grower or all flock feed and supplement with crushed egg shells in a separate container. Your birds may not be that productive right now anyway.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Is giving 22% meat food to laying hens during the winter okay?

During late December- early January, we had a lot of problems with pecking, with one of our hens being plucked bare on her lower back. We got her an apron and started feeding our laying hens 22% meat bird food instead of their usual 16% layer, in hopes that the plucking was caused by lack of protein from foraging during the winter. About a month later, and we've had no other pecking problems so far! I'm here to ask if this is a sustainable solution until Spring comes, or is it something that we should avoid doing in future Winters. Thank you!

Hi there and welcome to BYC!

The main difference between layer and meat birds is CALCIUM and PROTEIN.. As LONG as you also provide oyster shell or another calcium source on the side free choice for active layers then you should NOT have any problems.

22% protein was actually shown to give the highest hatch rates and many "breeder" rations are made with 22% protein.. which ALSO says to me more nutrients going into the eggs my family is consuming! Show breeders KNOW it gives better quality feather growth.

Eggs, meal worms, BSFL, are all great TREATS. Eggs are 34% protein but 64% FAT (calories/energy content NOT volume).. with half the protein and a good portion of the nutrients being found INSIDE the yolk! A good emergency boost for an otherwise failing bird. All bugs, grubs, etc are also high fat content and would not be a wise choice as long term PROTEIN supplement.

Feather picking is often blamed on lack of protein, I say hogwash.. Feathers despite being made from 90% protein and IMPORTANTLY it's amino acids contain only about 2% digestible protein in their raw form according to the research I've seen. It is more often a behavioral issue cause by boredom, crowding, lighting, etc.

Layer feed with 16% protein is the minimum considered to keep a light bodied bird like Leghorn in laying condition. Dual purpose (and all) birds do better, have better body/feather condition, etc and do best with MORE protein AND amino acids than average "layer" feed.. we aren't raising commercial birds or trying be equal to "big chicken". Most of us keep chickens to do better than them, and THIS is one of those areas that some of us will choose to surpass minimums!

While it's true that chicken NEED some animal source based amino acids which are added into the vegetarian formulas many of us are using.. when we are offering "high protein" treats.. there are lots of plant based proteins as well.. frozen peas frozen into larger chunks of ice is a great cooling summer time snack for example with 20-22% protein.

Noting excess protein is also not desirable.. and would be excreted as extra expensive and smelly waste.. processed though the kidneys in the same manner.. EXCESS protein OR calcium fed long tern could cause health problems including different types of gout, kidney failure, and even sudden death.. though most likely to happen in birds ALSO genetically predisposed somehow AND fed a nutrient (not calorie) deficient diet.

Needless to say.. I have obsessed about avian nutrition but can never know it all.

Since making the switch away from "layer" to Flock Raiser (20% protein, but ingredients and amino acids matter) with OS on the side.. the difference in my older birds is phenomenal when molt time hits! What used to be severely withdrawn birds now have softer molts, maintain their flock order, act normal, return to lay sooner.. I SWEAR by it! Noting YES I breed my birds and always select for improvement, but the change was seen before that! I don't consider it PERFECT but I consider it a happy medium for my pocket book and ALL my hens, roosters, broody's, chicks, etc. and previously ducks, NOT sufficient for starting game birds. I NEVER change.. and this is why my hens enter molt with more resources already on board.. noting I'm a treat miser and my birds free range about an acre which I cannot control what bugs, worms, grubs they access. We just do our best.

Recommend using a flock raiser, all flock, grower, starter.. etc non medicated with OS free choice on the side.. long term why switch seasonally? Protein and carbs contain the same 4 calories per gram.. Energy comes from only 3 sources.. fat, protein, and carbohydrates including fiber.

Here's a link to tons of feed comparisons, noting some things aren't included in the guaranteed analysis (like niacin content) and calling the company is the best way to get some of those differences..

https://www.backyardchickens.com/posts/20524932

 

[GC-Raptor]

During late December- early January, we had a lot of problems with pecking,

started feeding our laying hens 22% meat bird food instead of their usual 16% layer,

About a month later, and we've had no other pecking problems so far!

I would say they were lacking Protein and while feathers may not provide digestible protein, chickens don't know that, and just makes the problem worse. So your choice of a high Protein feed was a wise decision as it stopped the pecking.
I had a feather picking issue with my first Flock, Golden Comets when I switched to a Layers feed 16%. I switched back to a Layers feed 18% and the picking continued. I had to buy Pinless Peepers and put on the 3 culprits for 3 weeks.
I haven't fed my chickens less than 18% since. I'm on my third Flock.
I've never fed a feed with 22% Protein. A 20% All-Flock crumble is the maximum I've bought, when my preferred feed 18% Non-Medicated Starter-Grower isn't available.
Do you give them low Protein treats, like Scratch Grains or veggies? If so I would cut back.
I give my chickens a Tbsp of Scratch each, twice daily during winter season, half that the rest of the year.

I would finish the bag of 22% feed and try a 20% feed next, and cut back on the low Protein treats if applicable. GC

 

[rosemarythyme]

If you're getting good results off the 22%, I would think that's fine for seasonal use. I'd probably dilute it down to closer to 20% but that's just me.

 

[Red-Stars-in-RI]

The beauty of feed is that it can be mixed...mix a 16% with a 22% and you can get whatever % between the two you want depending on the ratio.

#mathrules

 

[B-Goock]

I seasonally give higher protein. Higher protein will just make them fat girls and just like us more fat is harder on our bodies. Then again we don't sit outside all day burning calories to stay warm.

I turn to higher protein for molts and winter. Feathers are all protein. Theres some threads out there about pressure cooking feathers then grinding them for a protein boost. Ive never done it but with raising some for food I've got a bunch of feathers from plucking I've thought about it.

You can keep feeding layer and up their protein with scrambled or hardboiled eggs. Or like others have said mix higher protein feed in.

If your keeping them as pets and they will live their lives till old age gets them then you should definitely worry more about keeping them on a good healthy diet. Just like us. I intend to live as long as I can so I eat right. (With some exceptions) but if they told me sorry you got a yr then all bets are off. Steak. Ice cream. Pies. Butter and lots of bacon!

 

[ChickenCanoe]

I just remembered hearing a podcast on this subject a year or two ago. It was a poultry nutritionist discussing protein and nutrition in general for breeding chickens. It may not apply if one only has laying hens.
He recommended 18% protein when temperature is below 80F and 20% when the temperature is over 80F. 16% is never enough for breeders.
Near zero F provide more scratch.
When laying ceases in the fall, you can cut protein back to 13-14% protein - which other poultry nutritionists have told me is appropriate for adult roosters. When I do use separate hen and rooster feeders, I use a 13.5% feed in the rooster feeders.

 

[EggSighted4Life]

Higher protein will just make them fat girls and just like us more fat is harder on our bodies.

What is your support for this please?

Protein and carbohydrates have the SAME calorie content.

I agree that extra weight/fat stored on the body IS harder but I completely disagree about higher protein "making ANYONE fat".

Getting fat comes from excess energy (aka calories) from ANY source.

The information chicken canoe posted is spot on supported by all the research I've done, even if I don't *LIKE* it fully!

Green table are on the right hand side of this link from Merck Veterinary manual regarding poultry nutrition..

https://www.merckvetmanual.com/poul...t-poultry/nutritional-requirements-of-poultry