Surviving Infectious Coryza

[ChuSayBok]

thanks!

I've been working too much to check in. No more fatalities from sickness since. Several little ones still recovering. The silver doesn't seem to be as effective as it was originally, but that may be because I've been gone too much and haven't had time to Tx them properly. There are 6 little ones that aren't any better or worse, just in a holding pattern. They love to be held though. And one of Magnificent the Psycho Ninja hen's babies has recovered fully with no Tx at all, which is rather amazing. It looks better than my iodine/silver chicks. It had a twin that died, though.

 

[Kiki]

 

[ChuSayBok]

Update on plague.. *warning: graphic images following*

I became reasonably hopeful a few weeks ago that we were over the hump. Everyone with symptoms was either recovered completely, almost recovered, or dead (hawk took out 2 sickest ones about a month ago.) The last one I had with real problems was eating and holding, but had a massive pustular tumor in the eye. For anyone who is dealing with this and is stubbornly refusing to quit, as I … exhausted, forlorn, and feeling defeated, but not giving up yet, because that's the kind of bonehead I am.. here are some pictures of successful removal of the hard pustular material that would not come out on its own. I've had 3 birds with this particular affliction; the first died before I had the nerve to attempt the procedure, the second is doing great and appears to be able to see and is actually symptom free, the third met an untimely fate at the talons of a small hawk; I believe a Cooper's. This resolution on this w/ my phone is terrible, but he got himself stuck in the dog pen one day, which is where the bad roosters are incarcerated, awaiting trial. He wasn't big enough to take them on and managed to find his way out before I could enslave, er capture and relocate him.

I thought I had a picture of Oatmeal prior to his removal, but I failed to take that. Here is what I removed from his eye after it was dried out, so less than half the size of what it was originally:

Here is Oatmeal afterwards. He was very, very happy, and followed me around the rest of the day. There was a residual piece in there, but he managed to get it out on his own. I wasn't going to risk getting that close to his eyeball, because these guys are just way too twitchy. Like Eminem rocking the table while they're operating.. sorry. That just popped into my head. It's super important to be able to hold their heads as still as possible.

So here is his "sister" before her removal:

What I removed:

With her, it was dicier,because she had a strand of live tissue over the top of the yellow mass that I was afraid might have a blood vessel in it; I tried to work around it, but that wasn't effective, so I ended up clipping it, which didn't seem to faze her, and shortly after I was able to remove the largest part of the mass in one piece.

The removal process itself was rather like that of a medieval barber operation, I hate to say, but for the sake of truth, I must allow that I had to start by removing the mass (both times) in tiny chunks in the beginning. I used a small yarn needle to begin with, just to pick it out a little at a time. the chickens didn't seem to mind this so much, once they were used to being held still (Oatmeal much less so, because his eye had dried open with the outside of the mass dried up. Keep in mind there are no nerves in the giant ball of pus, which is essentially what this is, so the main discomfort came in actually trying to remove the larger pieces, because it would move the inside surface next to the ocular tissue and aggravate it. In both cases, it had adhered to the eyeball itself, and I'm sure that was a terrible discomfort, especially with someone poking around and making it move. What I didn't do was get the point of the needle (my yarn needles have rounded off point anyway, so they won't prick like a regular needle, plus they are bulkier and can move a little more material) close to living tissue. Once I had removed enough so that the overstretched eyelids had some slack, I was able to remove the largest of the masses in one last large chunk with a small pair of tweezers. Sister was really happy to have hers out too. She was my best friend after that.

If you are wondering why I let this go on for so long, it is because most of the birds that got eye infections managed to recover without me doing anything invasive. These two were obviously not going to; and I waited as long as I could to see if they might work it out by themselves. When I was sure they wouldn't and it was a worse proposition to let them continue in such a state, I made the decision to proceed. Another reason is that with my lack of expertise, I had to know the mass was large enough to pull out without getting too close to the eye and risking a worse injury than before. After scouring the net for info and finding very little (but there is at least one of you on this site that I saw did this, and I can't remember who you are, but thank you for giving me the courage to make the attempt) on treatment, I and my birds feel I made the right decision.

I hope this helps someone, or at least grosses somebody out enough to be very careful before you buy a chicken from somebody that might have sick birds. It has been a very trying chapter in my educational experience and a test to my faith. For anyone reading silently who thinks I'm a total idiot, I'm more and more inclined to agree with you, but not beat down enough to give up yet. I'm getting about 1 egg every other day when I should be getting over a dozen, and my alpha roo has relapsed. So I'm giving myself until spring to make a decision to cull or not. I've stopped treating except for putting ACV in the water, b/c the expense is just too much and I don't have time to see to them like I need to. fortunately, except for a few rattles, everyone is status quo, eating, drinking, etc. It's just that I had hoped to see the whole flock recover to the point that none were symptomatic and so far that hasn't happened.

For anyone reading who has eradicated this illness successfully, I'm still hoping to hear your voice.

 

[Kiki]

Did you ever see this thread:
Nasty eye infection (pics)

 

[micstrachan]

Holy smokes. You are amazing. As a former molecular biologist, I am quite interested in reading this thread in its entirety, but don’t quite have the patience right now to read it on my phone. I am VERY curious to learn how you restrained a chicken and kept her still enough to operate on her eye. I sincerely wish you and your flock well. I am impressed with your tenacity and persistence. Your flock is fortunate to have you.

 

[ChuSayBok]

Thank you both; @KikisGirls; appreciate the link; I wonder what the similarities of fowlpox and coryza are, if there are similar agents, if the necrotic smell is present w/ the pox.. This opens some new questions.

@micstrachan, I'd love to pick yer brain sometime. Lot's of questions have I, especially if you are well versed in virology. Restraint was difficult. It was easier with Oatmeal; both of them were very small, less than half full size, so that helped. Also they were weakened somewhat from chronic immune onslaught, and I think they were desperate for relief. But as for technique, I held them in my lap w my less intelligent hand/arm and wedged the head with my other arm while I was picking the chunks out. Manipulating the swollen eyelid was the toughest part, especially w/ sister, because she would jerk her head terribly when her eyelid was moved. Oatmeal's wasn't as sensitive or swollen.

 

[ChuSayBok]

Update: alpha roo had recovered but relapsed. He was in recovery again, but got careless last week. He disappeared while I was away and there were 2 red tails at large when I got back home. About that time it seems Murphy must have paid a visit to the twerps and passed the crud to them, b/c one of the little girls had a mouth infection. This time I was more consistent with the oregano oil and actually managed to get them to take it voluntarily by putting it on some canned pears. We did this (as Tx for the girl with the infection and prophylactically for the rest) 3 days and her infection cleared up completely. My work schedule makes it hard to treat every day, so I had to skip a couple, but so far so good. And one more hen has started laying. I hope we are really over the hump this time.

@KikisGirls - off topic, but what's the PT test?

 

[Kiki]

Pullorum Typhoid.
I am pretty sure that all states required this test in order to become a participant in the NPIP. In Texas, a bird has to be tested for this in order to enter a show...If the bird was not tested with it's flock at home, most shows here in Texas offer this testing at the door of the show.
Texas requires that all eggs and birds that are sold within the state come from a PT clean flock.

 

[ChuSayBok]

Update:

All birds currently without any major ill. I had a setback last week; Heather had the start of an eye and sinus infection and CB quit eating and wouldn't come out of the shed. I opened a couple cans of outdated mixed fruit and generously mixed oregano oil in and fed it to the whole flock. The next day CB was acting totally normal (Heather hadn't really slowed down much; this is one of the strange things that about half the birds physical response is to hole up and quit eating, but they don't have external symptoms, the other half do the opposite.) Heather looked better. I've been on the road the last few days, so today was my first op to check back in, and they are both right as rain as far as I can tell. I didn't get close enough to Heather to see if he had any residual, but he seems fine.

George (the hen in my avatar currently; Georgette/Georgie/Puddin Puff) was one of the few that I used the antibiotic on and it seemed to help at first but then not. She retained the nasal discharge with the dead smell afterward until now. For the first time since she got sick, her sinuses are no longer running, and the smell is gone. So this is very encouraging. The twerps (youngest and separate group) are all free and clear of symptoms still in spite of the fact I know they have all been exposed. I haven't examined everyone individually, but at a glance, it looks like we're winning.

 

[Kiki]

Awesome news!