Sussex colours

Discussion in 'General breed discussions & FAQ' started by 6Happiness, Jan 10, 2011.

  1. 6Happiness

    6Happiness Chillin' With My Peeps

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    I have a speckled Sussex hen. What would I get if I bred her to a light Sussex roo?
     
    Last edited: Jan 10, 2011
  2. Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner True BYC Addict

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    It is not a sex link. If you had a Speckled Sussex roo and a Light Sussex hen, I'm pretty sure they would be sex links. I think the Light Sussex has the Silver gene needed to make Sex Links. But it does not wok the other way around. No Sex Links.

    What I would expect is that the male offspring will look a lot like a red sex link rooster. The basic body will be pretty much white with a black tail and black around the neck. However, the white will not show that much. The saddle and hackle feathers should be a yellow-gold or maybe rusty color. You'll see that yellow-gold more than the white. Here is a shot of a red sex link rooster, a Speckeld Sussex father and a Delaware mother. The main difference in what you will get and this photo should be that the Delaware hen is barred so her sons will be. Your males will not be barred so the black should be more solid.

    [​IMG]

    The female offspring should look a lot like a Light Sussex, but instead of a white body, they should be "cream" colored. The black will still be there. I really don't have a feel for what color "cream" really is. I suspect it is more yellowish than reddish, but I really don't know. I would appreciate it if someone could post a photo of a cream-colored pullet or hen to educate me.

    All the chicks should be yellow when hatched. There shoulkd not be enough difference in color to be able to sex them.
     
  3. 6Happiness

    6Happiness Chillin' With My Peeps

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    Thanks!

    Which trait(s) in this cross would be sex linked... it is the silver, or something else too?

    I'd appreciate more photos too... :) anyone???
     
  4. Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner True BYC Addict

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    Tadkerson has an excellent post about the three ways to make sex links to start his thread. I highly recommend it.

    https://www.backyardchickens.com/forum/viewtopic.php?id=261208

    Certain traits are passed down from one parent only to a son or a daughter, but not both. Those are called sex linked traits since sex of the offspring determines whether they get the trait or not. Size, some patterns, pointy hackle and saddle feathers are some. The traits that are of interest are the ones that can be seen in the chicks right after they hatch. There are three that can be used, that the mother only gives to her sons, not her daughters. These only work when the mother and father are pure for this trait, no recessive genes hiding behind dominant ones.

    Red sex links are possible when the hen has a Silver gene and the father has a Gold gene. The Silver gene dominates the Gold gene. The Gold gene still has some effect, hence a reddish tinge in some of the adult plumage, but at hatch, the Silver dominates and gives yellow down. The female offspring get a Gold gene from their father and do not get a Silver gene from mother, so their down is red or reddish colored, shade depending on other genes mixed in. The male offspring get both Silver and a Gold, so they have yellow down. Usually the offspring is real easy to sex. Your Speckled Sussex hen has the Gold gene. Your Light Sussex roo should have the Silver gene. Your hen will give a Gold gene to both her male and female offspring since Gold is not a sex linked gene. Your rooster will give a Silver gene to both his male and female offspring. So both male and female chicks will have yellow down and will not be distinguishable at hatch.

    Which chickens have the Silver gene can get a bit complicated since Silver, Recessive White, and Dominant White all give white chickens. Silver is the sex linked gene, not the white genes. Light Sussex should be Silver, but some breeds like the White Rock, may be either Silver or White. When I read the real experts (I am certainly not an expert) they often say things like "A White Leghorn is normally dominant White". To me, that means usually but not always. And it is not just one gene in play There are several genes that influence pattern and color.

    With black sex links, the gene that is of interest is the barred gene. If the rooster does not have a barred gene and the female does, the male offspring will be barred and the female offspring will not. If the chick is a solid darker color, a light spot can be seen on the red of the male offspring.

    With feather sexing, you take a rooster that is pure for rapid growth of certain feathers and cross him with a hen that has a slow feather growth trait for those same wing feathers. The resulting female chicks will have longer feathers than the male.

    Tadkerson explains it a lot better in his post and gives a whole lot of examples of which breeds and colors work.
     
  5. 6Happiness

    6Happiness Chillin' With My Peeps

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    very useful post. I love genetics so I've added it to my bookmarks, thank you!

    It doesn't discourage me from the cross as I'm not aiming for traits to sex the offspring (that was just unexpected/interesting that it was brought up). I wanted to add a few new hens and a roo to the flock; I already have a speckled and like her type, I wanted to get more sussex, but I like the light colouration better. So planned to buy half a dozen light sussex eggs for hatching and then was just curious how the colours' genetics would interact :) Yellow would add nice variation in the flock I think (which is mostly red, black and grey in various combinations)
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2011
  6. Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner True BYC Addict

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    You might want to play with this if you haven't seen it. I'll warn you though, it can be addicting.

    http://kippenjungle.nl/Overzicht.htm#kipcalculator

    Something else that might interest you. That speckling pattern on the Speckled Sussex, known as mille fleur in the calculator, is recessive. You will often see it on juvenile plumage but it will not make it to the adult plumage on first generation crosses. If you cross the first generation to others in the first generation or cross first generation back to the original Speckled Sussex, the pattern will start to show up in some of the adult plumage, whenever the two recessives pair up. Of course, if you have a white pattern and the bird is white, you will not be able to see it but it can be there genetically.
     
  7. RAREROO

    RAREROO Overrun With Chickens

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    Quote:Silver does not dominate Gold, the two genes have equal power, it just depends on which way the crossing is. Also a cross of a Silver roo on Gold hen, does not allow the gold hen to give a gold gene to her female offspring, only silver silver genes from the father as hens cannot be split for silver and gold like roos can. A silver roo on gold hens gives pure silver hens and split silver/gold roos. Though you are correct that as chicks, they will all be colored like the light Sussex, the males will just delevope some gold coloring as they age.
     
  8. Ridgerunner

    Ridgerunner True BYC Addict

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    6Happiness,
    Rareroo is one of the genetics experts on this forum. I certainly defer to Rareroo in matters of genetics.

    Rareroo,
    I forgot that gold (s) is basically "not silver" (S) on Henk's calculator so you are absolutely right. My mistake.

    When I run a silver columbian rooster on Henk's calculator over a Speckled Sussex hen for the gold, I get a "cream" Columbian female. What is causing the "cream" color and could you describe what cream looks like. I kinda think it would be more of an off-white, not yellow. I think the second generation chicks I got with SS/Delaware ancestry is "lemon" as opposed to "cream". They could have Buff Orp or BA in them too. Not sure. Second generation gets real uncertain. Both about 13 weeks.

    [​IMG][​IMG]
     
  9. RAREROO

    RAREROO Overrun With Chickens

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    Quote:Thanks I wouldnt really claim to be a genetics expert like, a few of the members on here, ( Tim, Henk, Sonoran) as there is a lot im sure that I still dont know, but I do know the ins and outs of Sexlinkage and how the Dominant, Recessive, Incompletely Dominant, and sexlinked color genes and the most general color genetics.

    The "Cream" Columbian thing that you are getting from in them should be due to Autosomal Red and Mohagany genes from the SS hens.

    The birds you pictured appear to have buff, maybe gold, and barring from in them. The "lemon" thing isnt a real color and it could be could be kinda confusing, but like in my "lemon" cuckoo orp projects, and the ones from the UK that are called Lemon Cuckoo, its just barred Buff.
    Lemon is also sometimes used in the name of a Gold Patterned bird that is diluted by Dominant White, like a Lemon Pyle, or more appropriately Lemon Partridge Brahma. Is a Gold/Partridge Brahma diluted by Dom. White.
     

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