Sustainable homesteading birds

[FoxandBearFarms]

There are a few things I want to discuss in this thread and I'm hoping people have some advice, questions, theories to share.
1. Are American Bresse all they're cracked up to be?
2. What are your thoughts on Bresse x Partridge Chantecler and/or Bresse x Buckeye?
3. In your opinion, how do those dual purpose birds work in terms of flavor and meat at 12-16 weeks?
4. What about brahma crosses with those birds?lol
On the farm we have ameraucana (black and lavender), buff brahma, buckeyes and now partridge chanteclers coming along. I'm hoping to not only show some birds this year, but also possibly either improve on the viability of those existing breeds, or cross some things to make a more viable bird.

Attached is Henry, our one adult partridge Chantecler. 17 are in the brooder to join him this summer though.

 

[FunClucks]

If you get American Breese from the correct supplier, yes they are. You want the guy in Florida, not the guy with the same name elsewhere as your source of birds.

I'd suggest looking at Freedom Ranger Hatchery's New Hampshires which were specifically bred for meat (and they do provide eggs) as a comparison with the Breese unless you're planning to finish the Breese like the French do to take advantage of the unique Breese genetics to produce that Breese taste. Once you cross breed Breese, you loose those genetics and finishing capability that make them unique and desirable, although you still may get a big bird. FRH's NHs are the best dual purpose bird sold by a hatchery that I found, but FRH also has a number of other nice meat bird breeds and dual purpose breeds, and some of those also would probably work quite well on a homestead. I've just got my eye on those NH's.

Have you looked at all the Breese threads on this site? Cause there's a lot of info and you can learn a lot. Might message or contact those members directly if they're still active to ask some of your cross-breeding questions if they don't notice this post.

Before crossing them, I'd really question what you're trying to improve by making the crosses you've listed. Because I don't see the purpose behind some of your proposed crosses. But others might.

Also, Welcome to BYC!!!

 

[FoxandBearFarms]

If you get American Breese from the correct supplier, yes they are. You want the guy in Florida, not the guy with the same name elsewhere as your source of birds.

I'd suggest looking at Freedom Ranger Hatchery's New Hampshires which were specifically bred for meat (and they do provide eggs) as a comparison with the Breese unless you're planning to finish the Breese like the French do to take advantage of the unique Breese genetics to produce that Breese taste. Once you cross breed Breese, you loose those genetics and finishing capability that make them unique and desirable, although you still may get a big bird. FRH's NHs are the best dual purpose bird sold by a hatchery that I found, but FRH also has a number of other nice meat bird breeds and dual purpose breeds, and some of those also would probably work quite well on a homestead. I've just got my eye on those NH's.

Have you looked at all the Breese threads on this site? Cause there's a lot of info and you can learn a lot. Might message or contact those members directly if they're still active to ask some of your cross-breeding questions if they don't notice this post.

Before crossing them, I'd really question what you're trying to improve by making the crosses you've listed. Because I don't see the purpose behind some of your proposed crosses. But others might.

Also, Welcome to BYC!!!

Thanks for the reply! So there are a couple reasons I have for wanting to cross them.

We're located in Missouri, and it's gets kinda silly with weather sometimes. We recently had sub zero temperatures for almost 2 weeks. Anything I had with big combs or wattles experienced some degree of frostbite and I've decided I don't want to deal with that again. So. Pea and cushion combs it is.lol. Another reason is that I want birds I enjoy looking at. I find Bresse as boring as they could possibly be. If the flavor is much different, I feel like it could be bred into a bird with pea or cushion combs eventually.

 

[Egghead_Jr]

The Brahma cockerels were traditionally culled at 12 weeks. It was considered most economical and they should produce a fine carcass at that age. If your Buff does not then try another source and variety. The Buckeye should also be a fine dual purpose bird, if yours is not try another source. The Partridge Chantecler is not as early maturing as the white.

Regardless, any good stock can be improved. You need the genetics available then push them. If your current stock of breed of choice is not up to par get another source then develop it.

There is no benefit to American Bresse. It's a gimmick with much false advertisement. If there is a niche market you are selling to they can be leveraged for that niche through following through and touting those claims. Otherwise stick with a quality stock that traditionally fit your goals and has the genetic potential to be improved toward that goal.

Crossing birds begets the one time hybrid vigor. It was done back in the days before Cornish cross. How much advantage that provides is unclear as it's not done anymore. I doubt there is much gain if any over a thoughtful breeding of a sustainable breed.

 

[FunClucks]

Thanks for the reply! So there are a couple reasons I have for wanting to cross them.

We're located in Missouri, and it's gets kinda silly with weather sometimes. We recently had sub zero temperatures for almost 2 weeks. Anything I had with big combs or wattles experienced some degree of frostbite and I've decided I don't want to deal with that again. So. Pea and cushion combs it is.lol. Another reason is that I want birds I enjoy looking at. I find Bresse as boring as they could possibly be. If the flavor is much different, I feel like it could be bred into a bird with pea or cushion combs eventually.

The Breese flavor is only different if you finish them the way the French do. Unlike other chickens they have the capability for marbled meat, which gives a unique tenderness and flavor. The special diet is required to get the correct flavor upon processing. Something about feeding the last month or so on only milk and corn, but I don't know the details of the diet myself. There's folks on here that do. Breese have pretty unique genetics. Might ask in some of the genetics Forums or threads what folks think of your proposed crosses and how that would affect the marbling of the meat. I'm sure someone somewhere has done it.

Chantecler is bred for cold temps. You might see if you can find folks that breed them as meat birds in Northern climates.

Good luck!

 

[Cinnamon Roll]

Hickorycroft Farm Chicken stuff

This a farm on YouTube, Hickorycroft Farm, that used to raise partridge Chanteclers. They have some videos from that time that might be helpful to you. They have switched over to silkies for various reasons so their recent videos look a lot different but they are still raising them for meat and eggs.

 

[bayocum]

The answer is: it depends. What do you mean when you say: "Are they all they're cracked up to be?" If you mean, are they an outstanding meat bird, the answer is "yes." You won't find a better bird for raising on pasture if your sole goal is meat. We started working with Bresse many years ago, and we've raised just about every kind of heritage breed you can think of...none are better at putting on meat than the Bresse. Not Jersey Giants, New Hamps, Buckeyes, Bielefelders, Delawares, Indian Rivers, EO's, Pita Pintas, Brahmas...seriously, it's been a lot of birds...lol. And CornishX are certainly not a sustainable or pasture bird, period. Lot's of folks do it, but THAT's a gimmick. Bresse are not gimmicks, if you get them from the right source (GF).
But we don't raise the white Bresse anymore for two reasons: they get a little funky if you're not constantly refreshing your lines, AND, their are other breeds, like Pita Pintas, that are better dual-purpose birds that still have really solid meat quality. I'd agree with Egghead that Buckeye's can be absolutely wonderful birds, especially in a cold climate. We loved raising them.
You can read about our real-world experience raising Bresse before it was cool (lol) and the benefits and challenges on our website. But Bresse are not a gimmick... the only bird we've raised that comes close to the meat qualities are the Mechelens (again, GF). But we love our Pita Pintas and think they're darn near the perfect dp bird for our climate. Good luck!

 

[No Coop No Problem]

Bresse sound like snake oil salesmanship to me. Any bird would taste fancy if caged and fed in such an unusual manner. The French are fond of doing unusual things to animals to alter flavor, foie gras being the most famous and cruel

 

[FunClucks]

The answer is: it depends. What do you mean when you say: "Are they all they're cracked up to be?" If you mean, are they an outstanding meat bird, the answer is "yes." You won't find a better bird for raising on pasture if your sole goal is meat. We started working with Bresse many years ago, and we've raised just about every kind of heritage breed you can think of...none are better at putting on meat than the Bresse. Not Jersey Giants, New Hamps, Buckeyes, Bielefelders, Delawares, Indian Rivers, EO's, Pita Pintas, Brahmas...seriously, it's been a lot of birds...lol. And CornishX are certainly not a sustainable or pasture bird, period. Lot's of folks do it, but THAT's a gimmick. Bresse are not gimmicks, if you get them from the right source (GF).
But we don't raise the white Bresse anymore for two reasons: they get a little funky if you're not constantly refreshing your lines, AND, their are other breeds, like Pita Pintas, that are better dual-purpose birds that still have really solid meat quality. I'd agree with Egghead that Buckeye's can be absolutely wonderful birds, especially in a cold climate. We loved raising them.
You can read about our real-world experience raising Bresse before it was cool (lol) and the benefits and challenges on our website. But Bresse are not a gimmick... the only bird we've raised that comes close to the meat qualities are the Mechelens (again, GF). But we love our Pita Pintas and think they're darn near the perfect dp bird for our climate. Good luck!

Where did you source your Pita Pintas? I'm trying the Freedom Ranger New Hampshires next. If those don't make me love them, I'd like to find some other options.

 

[bayocum]

Where did you source your Pita Pintas? I'm trying the Freedom Ranger New Hampshires next. If those don't make me love them, I'd like to find some other options.

Hi Fun, years ago we got some locally from a woman who claimed to have imported them herself… but she wasn’t fond of saying how… lol. They were great but hard to get more of. So over the past few years we got Black and Red from Greenfire. They’ve been excellent.