Swedish Flower Hen Thread

[Knock Kneed Hen]

I am ..torn..about the "faults" people notice. These birds originated very successfully on their own and so what we might not like, such as sprigs, obviously hasn't hindered them. Even split wing hasn't been naturally selected against. They survived just fine. I'm kind of wondering if sometimes what we see as a fault isn't so much a problem for the bird as it is for our eye. Does that make sense?

I think we humans kind of mess things up when we go to breed for specific traits. I bred Arabians for a while, and I noticed the ones that are considered most beautiful sometimes had no functionality, in that all sense and gentleness was bred out. I have a mare that is kind of a fool about things, and she isn't young, but her bloodlines are amazing and she was bred to be pretty, to fit the human standard.

I'm sure one of my two SFH has split wing, but I like his color, and he is a great forager. Do I cull him in favor of a bird that doesn't have as pretty a red color and isn't as good a forager but has ideal wings and thus sacrifice something the breed is known for? I dunno. Just rambling on.

I understand what you're saying. I was torn myself. We have to note that Greenfire Farms, the original importers of these birds, only brought in a certain number of birds. From there all others are bred. Of course, not everyone is selling eggs, so the gene pool is not as vast. We don't really know how common split wing is in Sweden. Gosh, I've sure tried to get folks from Sweden to comment...but no luck on the matter.

I was selective because I could be. I had lots of birds to choose from so it made sense to me to cull birds that would pass on such strong recessive traits. Should I keep a roo with split wing then ALL my offspring would be affected. It would be interesting to know how many of the original birds imported from Greenfire Farms have split wing. I didn't buy my birds from them so I doubt they'd give me any information. Maybe someone who bought directly from them could inquire for us.

I don't have any red and white hens. If I did get one and it happened to have split wing, I'd keep her and breed her, hoping to get more babies like her and then possibly stop using her for breeding at some point. It's all personal choice, no right or wrong. I like to share information I have and see what others are doing, but I'm not judging or criticizing anyone. If I don't like that someone is breeding birds with a trait I'm not fond of I simply won't add any of their bloodline to my flock.

Agree, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I personally love a Roman nose on a horse, but of course, it's a huge no-no.

 

[jmarie]

I am ..torn..about the "faults" people notice. These birds originated very successfully on their own and so what we might not like, such as sprigs, obviously hasn't hindered them. Even split wing hasn't been naturally selected against. They survived just fine. I'm kind of wondering if sometimes what we see as a fault isn't so much a problem for the bird as it is for our eye. Does that make sense?

I think we humans kind of mess things up when we go to breed for specific traits. I bred Arabians for a while, and I noticed the ones that are considered most beautiful sometimes had no functionality, in that all sense and gentleness was bred out. I have a mare that is kind of a fool about things, and she isn't young, but her bloodlines are amazing and she was bred to be pretty, to fit the human standard.

I'm sure one of my two SFH has split wing, but I like his color, and he is a great forager. Do I cull him in favor of a bird that doesn't have as pretty a red color and isn't as good a forager but has ideal wings and thus sacrifice something the breed is known for? I dunno. Just rambling on.

I do agree with the Eye or selecting specific traits that end up reducing the overall whole. I used to show Weimaraner's in show and in hunt and it is now a rare dog that can do both well. Many of the traits selected for for "Show dogs" have resulted in dogs that are not very birdie, which is the stated purpose of the dog.

 

[Knock Kneed Hen]

      In their native country, the Swedish have established a gene bank for their precious livestock breeds.  This gene bank

      states that they will not preserve the genetic material of native landraces that have undergone any sort of selective breeding. Here on my ranch we

      breed these birds the way they have been developed to this point in time - allowing the natural forces around them to determine whose

      genes will carry forward.  With a few exceptions, of course.  We do cull bad combs (sprigs, etc. as they should be a single-comb bird), poor layers, and

      any bird with leg or foot issues. I've only experienced a couple of split-wings in my breeding groups, so I did remove those from the breeding pens. Other than that, we just watch the Flowers bloom!

Doc

But in fact, there IS selective breeding whenever people are involved. One farmer may have a system that each time he grabs a bird from his flock he grabs a white one. Maybe he picks the black ones because they're easier to grab (their parent birds are super friendly) OR maybe he doesn't pick the black ones..for the same reason! We don't know, nor will we.

I kept my rooster, not because he was the prettiest, but because he is the sweetest!! IMO, they ARE already selectively bred. I need more birds and hear that farmer John has some. Nope...no whites for me, I notice that they get picked off by hawks quicker. See what I mean?

You cull for side sprig, but do they do that in Sweden? On GFF site they mentioned that they got birds from someone that was breeding against crests.

I really wish we could pick the brain of a Swedish farmer.

 

[Dahlisgrams]

Good food for thought about split wings and other traits in our birds. I checked my flock for split wing today while I inspected for mites and lice and luckily they are all pest free. Some have split wing however, as in about half. I'm torn. I don't want to interfere with their natural selection but as has already been stated, it happens anyway... Two of four roosters and several pullets have the defect. Both roosters were chosen for their good dispositions and I like the looks of both. One of my prettiest pullets too. I'm putting them in the laying coop for now and will continue to think about this. For now I won't breed them and will see if the others are carriers by doing some test breedings. Thanks to everyone for the discussion.

 

[ki4got]

Quote: for some breeds that is true, but not all. even some colors within the same breed you'll see differences.

 

[ki4got]

re: split wing... here's my take on it.

a bird with split wing is missing a primary feather. as such there's a gap. when flapping, birds missing flight feathers are less readily able to take off on a moment's notice and actual flight is more strenuous. that's true of any species of bird...

so a bird with split wing, IMO, is one that's likely to get eaten sooner than a bird with a properly configured wing. thus, selection...

i have a few cochins with split wing. flight? nope ain't gonna happen. they fly like rocks float. those with good wings at least can get a bit of altitude before dropping again, or better distance when launching from a high spot.

 

[Dahlisgrams]

re: split wing... here's my take on it.

a bird with split wing is missing a primary feather. as such there's a gap. when flapping, birds missing flight feathers are less readily able to take off on a moment's notice and actual flight is more strenuous. that's true of any species of bird...

so a bird with split wing, IMO, is one that's likely to get eaten sooner than a bird with a properly configured wing. thus, selection...

i have a few cochins with split wing. flight? nope ain't gonna happen. they fly like rocks float. those with good wings at least can get a bit of altitude before dropping again, or better distance when launching from a high spot.

I was thinking along those lines too. Was trying to explain it to DH... he thought it was purely cosmetic but I explained that they are unable to fly as well without the bridge feathers (not the proper term but it worked for the discussion). Another person in on the discussion here mainly as a standbyer mentioned that chickens don't fly.. Umm, yeah they do. Not like a robin, but they fly and it does help protect them from predators...

My birds have been moved. Rechecked their wings just in case and it turns out one I thought was split was put into the wrong group and didn't need to be moved to the layer flock after all. So even less than I thought have it. Two hens and two roosters. Could be worse. I still have a good breeding quality group left so I'm happy, plus I have a few that are in the process of hatching right now so possibly a few more. I don't think I'll select for color beyond a bird not having any white at all, but a split wing is functional issue and I am going to cull for it.

 

[ki4got]

Quote: it might help to count how many flight feathers there are on 'normal' vs split wings, in case you have one you're not sure of...

 

[Bulldogma]

I don't have any red and white hens. If I did get one and it happened to have split wing, I'd keep her and breed her, hoping to get more babies like her and then possibly stop using her for breeding at some point. It's all personal choice, no right or wrong. I like to share information I have and see what others are doing, but I'm not judging or criticizing anyone. If I don't like that someone is breeding birds with a trait I'm not fond of I simply won't add any of their bloodline to my flock.

Agree, beauty is in the eye of the beholder. I personally love a Roman nose on a horse, but of course, it's a huge no-no.

I have 2 lovely red & white hens - let me know if you need eggs from them. Gunnar will be the dad (he's in my avatar).

 

[Leahs Mom]

Here are my 5 week olds....look at the difference in the tails and sizes... (As always, trying to guess sex!)

4 on the floor. Left to Right: Yellow, Blue, Black, Orange



Front: Little Black. Smallest; Still not much tail to speak of!



LIttle Black



Little Blue (Second to shortest tail feathers; second to smallest overall) I LOVE THIS COLOR!


Little Blue


Little Blue





Little Orange Second to Largest - Long tail feathers



Little Orange


Little Orange





Little Yellow - Largest (he/she is quite large but Orange is close in size) Longest tail feathers.


Little Orange