Swedish Flower Hen Thread

[HaplessRunner]

1) Make sure you use medicated feed for a couple months. I lost seven of my first fourteen due to cocci-whatever.
2) Get a storm door. They seem to think where you live is the source of all happiness and cracked corn.
3) They're not susceptible to Marek's, not by a long shot, but I've seen curly toe paralysis a lot so be warned.
4) Count them at night. Mine are pretty much pastured and their capacities for flight are surprising to say the least. A big problem with me is that my three original girls like to roost atop my BBQ.
5) Handle them a lot when they're young. That got neglected for me because of #1, and I ended up with fifteen chicks from Greenfire that never got handled at all. It was probably for the best considering mine have to stay clear of neighborhood cats and what-not, but if you're cooping yours up, you'll want them less wild than mine. That's not to say mine won't get in front of my legs and stop me from walking like a new puppy. It's just to say mine are impossible to catch or pick up.

I have to respectfully disagree with the recommendation to use medicated feed. Only use ampuprollium if there are signs of coccidosis. SFH are susceptible to a Vitamin B1 (Thiamine) deficiency. Ampuprollium effectively blocks the intake of thiamine. I have also had a vet who is a colleague in the Cream Legbar Club confirm the ampuprollium causes thiamine deficiency. This deficiency can cause curled toes and weak leg joints in susceptible/sensitive chickens.

After having lost a couple of chicks to cocci, I used to proactively treat all newly hatched chicks with Corid (ampuprollium). While that effectively eliminated concerns for coccidosis, I ended us with several SFH with severely curled toes and one with weak ankles and hips. I have found that cream legbars and cream legbar hybrids are also susceptible to thiamine deficiencies.

So as with any medication, use if it is needed. Otherwise don't! Your chickens, your call.

 

[Bulldogma]

I'm sorry but I must disagree with jknowles on the medicated feed.

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"Chickens & Coccidiosis:
Coccidian protozoa are present in the intestines of all chickens. Chickens do not become symptomatic of coccidiosis unless there is an overgrowth of the protozoa. If a person is utilizing natural preventative health measures (unpasteurized apple cider vinegar – U-ACV - in the water, fermented feed, an occasional dollop of yogurt in feed, a healthy deep-litter method and at least 10 days quarantine of any new birds introduced to the property) it is unlikely that they will ever see an outbreak of coccidiosis in their chickens.

How Medicated Chick Starter Works… and Why You Shouldn’t Use It:
The popularity of medicated chick starter feeds grew as a result of the meat and egg industries. When companies are raising literally thousands of birds in cages housed in large warehouse-style buildings, there is not a lot of “Natural” anything going into the raising of the chickens. The environment alone can cause issues and illnesses in the chickens, and these big companies must “protect their investment.” Thus, they make a preemptive strike, dosing the chicks with antibiotics and amprollium – a drug that blocks thiamine uptake, thereby preventing the carbohydrate synthesis necessary for cocci to grow.

Medicated chick starter feeds almost always contain amprollium, and sometimes contain other antibiotics. If a person is trying to raise organic chickens – or at least utilize natural chicken keeping methods, these drugs and antibiotics are fully contrary to that goal.

Just like using chemical wormers can create chemical-resistant “super worms,” using unnecessary antibiotics can play a role in the creation of antibiotic-resistant infections. (Not something most of us desire in a flock of chickens.)

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And there is another large factor to consider with amprollium. This drug’s main purpose is to block thiamine uptake. All living things need thiamine – which is also known as vitamin B1 - in order to grow and be healthy.

According to the Merk Veterinary Manual:

"Polyneuritis in birds represents the later stages of a thiamine deficiency, probably caused by buildup of the intermediates of carbohydrate metabolism. In the initial stages of deficiency, lethargy and head tremors may be noted. A marked decrease in appetite is also seen in birds fed a thiamine-deficient diet. Poultry are also susceptible to neuromuscular problems, resulting in impaired digestion, general weakness, star-gazing, and frequent convulsions.

"Polyneuritis may be seen in mature birds ~3 wk after they are fed a thiamine-deficient diet. As the deficiency progresses to the legs, wings, and neck, birds may sit on flexed legs and draw back their heads in a star-gazing position. Retraction of the head is due to paralysis of the anterior neck muscles. Soon after this stage, chickens lose the ability to stand or sit upright and topple to the floor, where they may lie with heads still retracted. Thiamine deficiency may also lead to a decrease in body temperature and respiratory rate. Testicular degeneration may be noted, and the heart may show slight atrophy. Birds consuming a thiamine-deficient diet soon show severe anorexia. They lose all interest in feed and will not resume eating unless given thiamine. If a severe deficiency has developed, thiamine must be force-fed or injected to induce eating."

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Gee… doesn’t that sound lovely? (Not!) In young chicks, the “splay leg” condition can sometimes be attributed to a thiamine deficiency if the chick has not been kept on a slippery surface. Now, that is not to say that feeding medicated chick feed will cause a thiamine deficiency, but unfortunately it did in one of my own chicks (that quickly recovered after being taken off medicated feed and having vitamin B1 supplements in the water).

In short, your chicks will be far better off if you diligently practice good, natural chicken keeping methods. Use that U-ACV, feed fermented feed with good, live cultures and quarantine any new birds brought onto your property for a minimum of 10 days. If you’re doing all of that, chances are you won’t ever have to worry about most of those scary-sounding diseases you read about on the internet!"

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Further - I recommend putting a piece of sod from your chicken yard in with the chicks from day 1 to introduce them naturally to all the biology present in your soils.

 

[HaplessRunner]

You have to weigh the lesser evil VS the greater good. I've found that birds that get a bit of amp fare better than birds with nothing. Perhaps you'd have to see seven chicks diarrhea themselves to death before you'd accept that. It's an awful, terrible, excruciating death and the moment I started using medicated feed it halted, in it's tracks. Literally, sick chicks got better. Almost overnight. We noticed that certain birds would "get slow" around six weeks of age, and we had one we called the Aviator. She got sick, and that was where I drew the line. We got medicated feed and none of them got sick at all. She sped up, life was good, etc.

Maybe there's a rotation that people can do with medicated and non medicated feed to get the benefit of both without any drawbacks? There's no doubt in my mind medicated feed saves a lot of pain and hardship.

Myself, I've raised upwards of 60 SFH in the panhandle of Nebraska. Perhaps some of you are in different climates with different flora and what-not, but I speak only to my own experience. My brother, however, was one of the first people in the US to have SFH from Greenfire.

And it's Knoles. Not Knowles. Wrong bloodline.

I understand the situation that you faced and agree with your response. As I indicated earlier, if your chickens have the illness then by all means treat it. I lost two cream legbar chicks to cocci and it was an ugly passing. I certainly do not want to see that suffering again and will treat the illness. Likewise, I now know that SFH are sensitive to ampuprollium and will do my best to minimize the exposure to it.

 

[Kyzmette]

I'm one of those crazy chicken ladies that treats my chickens as pets, and of the chicks I've hatched, the SFH are some of my favorites due to their friendly, curious nature. They don't have the "scary hand" reaction, and will, instead, actually step up into my palm to be held. Some breeds are flighty, some are downright neurotic, but my SFH have all been very social and easygoing so far.

 

[Bulldogma]

I keep a bottle of Corid for the "just in case" scenarios. I've only had to use it once, and only on an older bird that had been stressed out.

Medicated feed is not designed to treat cocci, but to prevent it. Here is how I would put this in context - Instead of taking antibiotics when you get a cold, doctors now say you should only take antibiotics if you later develop an infection from the cold (which does NOT happen in most cases).

Instead of feeding medicated feed in hopes of preventing something that might or might not happen, why not feed them a healthier diet that will positively impact their future joint, tissue and bone health, and only treat with proper medication IF they develop a problem? If you are paying attention to your chicks, you will notice a lethargic, fluffed up appearance prior to any loose stools. Separate symptomatic chicks and treat them for a few days with Corid in the water. After treatment, be sure to add Poly-Vi-Sol to their feed or water to replenish their systems.

Food for thought.

(Unmedicated food for thought.

 

[ki4got]

Quote:
well, with my adults on it, I found they ate less than with dry. but with the cold temps I've gone back to dry pellets for now, since the FF was freezing solid before they ate it all. and since I feed only once a day that was causing some problems... once the weather warms back up i'll be going back to it for them. till then only the babies are getting FF.

I tried stopping the FF for the chicks, and within a week found they started showing problems with vitamin deficiencies from the commercial feed but as soon as I went back to it, those problems cleared up very quickly... so I will agree that SFH seem to be prone to vitamin deficiencies as chicks especially. the older birds don't seem to be having such a problem, but then again, it could be an issue with the chick crumbles vs adult feed... I ferment the adult pellets - a 'rooster booster' designed for non-laying birds - for both chicks and adults and only offer the chick crumbles for the first day or so until the chicks learn to eat the FF...

 

[Bulldogma]

I guess my biggest question would be what sort of feeders you use, or if you have to reload and clean a dish daily?

Plastic, ceramic or glass dishes work best... or just throw it on the ground. My birds clean the bowls out so I rarely have to clean them. And yes - you have to feed daily during the times they need supplemental feed (winter and times there aren't enough bugs and vegetation).

But - once you jump in and try it, it becomes very easy! And with your number of birds, it can be done very simply. One 5-gallon bucket will do it.

If you're interested in more info, let me know and I can PM you a good link with pretty much everything you need to know. (Tomorrow - I"m off to bed!)

 

[fintuckyfarms]

This is the fist time I have had this breed. Pretty sure this pullet is a he! The saddle feather are the nail in the coffin....

 

[HaplessRunner]

This is the fist time I have had this breed. Pretty sure this pullet is a he! The saddle feather are the nail in the coffin....

MF cockerel all the way.

 

[Bulldogma]

This is the fist time I have had this breed. Pretty sure this pullet is a he! The saddle feather are the nail in the coffin....

Yes - he's a cockerel for sure. It can be VERY hard to tell with the crested cockerels before they start to redden in the comb and wattles. A lot of us have had cockerels surprise us like this. I even had an uncrested cockerel I sold as a pullet. He came back to me when his true gender was revealed... and I'm SO thankful he did!!!



Yup - Mr. Mace himself was once mistaken for (and sold as) a pullet! LOL!

As for yours, can you return him to the breeder?