Swelling Below Vent: Photo

[crazy huhn]

My girls are still having the diarrhea. It has been a week now. All the others seem to be OK, except normal molting issues.

My two Cochin are in their hospital crates, did not really touch the flush mash, ate a tiny bit of crumble, drank a lot of vitamin/electrolyte water. Yesterday and today I have given them the polyvisol.
One thought on their diarrhea was, that it may have been caused by the Ivermectin pour-on dewormer. My vet recommended that it 3 weeks ago and again last week. They all got 0.5 cc. I had them on DE all summer long, but maybe they had more worms than any of my other chickens and now their system has to deal with the foreign dead worm protein and reacts with diarrhea.
My second thought after reading through a lot of posts here was, that maybe they got too much ivermectin: my vet recommended 0.5 cc twice in 3 weeks while posts on here from threehorses or glenda recommend wazine dewormer first and about 2 weeks later the ivermectin, ivermectin only about 6 drops for a big standard size chicken. 0.5cc is probably 3 times as much and I did it basically twice in only three weeks. Also, my girls were in the compost pile: I had hundreds of grubs in there. That was before the second worming.......

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
Yes, birds will often have diarrhea after worming (another reason for the flush - to flush the dying/paralyzed worms out and get it over with). And thus always give yogurt after worming to help alleviate the stress on the beneficial bacteria.

And no - if they got too much ivermectin, they would have been staggering and ataxic. We recommend conservative amounts because we're not vets and, unlike antibiotics, a lesser amount won't harm a bird.

If you go by the per-weight dosage, you'll come up with the dosage the vet recommends.

 

[crazy huhn]

I did the flush with a syringe. Both girls are not eating much, one did eat the yogurt - yeah. The one with the swelling below the vent is alert, but does not really lay down to rest (swelling?!). I cleaned her up again, swelling is still there, but so is the diarrhea.....
Hope for better news tomorrow after the flush.

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
Well, by flush in this case I meant feed them a gently cleansing and flushing food so that as it passes through the digestive tract (where the paralyzed/dying worms are languishing) it cleanses them (and undigested food) out, the yogurt replacing the good bacteria. If your'e talking about a cloacal flush, I usually save that for egg bound hens who have had an egg crushed/break (and then always with cool water to reduce inflammation).

Your swollen hen is likely not doing so because of the fluid. Have you tried to aspirate it out, if it's fluid, with a hypodermic needle (sterile, of course) - or is it more like inflammed edematous flesh, not a pocket of fluid? If you do it, don't enter directly beneath - but to the side where it's less likely to contact the ground.

No more oral flushes now - let the digestive tract rest. Again the applesauce'/molasses is a one-time flush. Thereafter you do just the yogurt to reinforce the good bacteria so that they can prevent any further take-over by pathogens inside the digestive tract (from beak to vent). Adding a little oatmeal (powder it in the food processor first to make a powder while dry/uncooked) to the yogurt can sometimes help to solidify droppings slightly as well as giving the good bacteria fiber to encourage their colonization.

 

[crazy huhn]

Quote:
Well, by flush in this case I meant feed them a gently cleansing and flushing food so that as it passes through the digestive tract (where the paralyzed/dying worms are languishing) it cleanses them (and undigested food) out, the yogurt replacing the good bacteria. If your'e talking about a cloacal flush, I usually save that for egg bound hens who have had an egg crushed/break (and then always with cool water to reduce inflammation).

Your swollen hen is likely not doing so because of the fluid. Have you tried to aspirate it out, if it's fluid, with a hypodermic needle (sterile, of course) - or is it more like inflammed edematous flesh, not a pocket of fluid? If you do it, don't enter directly beneath - but to the side where it's less likely to contact the ground.

No more oral flushes now - let the digestive tract rest. Again the applesauce'/molasses is a one-time flush. Thereafter you do just the yogurt to reinforce the good bacteria so that they can prevent any further take-over by pathogens inside the digestive tract (from beak to vent). Adding a little oatmeal (powder it in the food processor first to make a powder while dry/uncooked) to the yogurt can sometimes help to solidify droppings slightly as well as giving the good bacteria fiber to encourage their colonization.

It was just an oral flush (apple sauce, pro biotic powder, molasses, honey, parrot baby feed, soupy), because they did not eat it themselves and one time only. I offer them yogurt and crumble now to eat. One hen is eating a little bit, while the other one with the swelling does not really touch her food. I had offered the oatmeal before, but they did not touch it either. I really hope, that tomorrow after the flush everything will be a little better.

So far, I have not tried to aspirate it out. It is certainly not inflamed. The reason why I have not done it yet was, that I thought it may look so bad because she has lost so much weight, but if she would have normal weight, that swelling would not look so bad or even normal (wishful thinking?). Does that make sense? However, I will do it, if I do not see any positive changes by this weekend.

 

[threehorses]

Quote:
OK, phew. I thought you might have meant that you used a syringe..... well I just thought I didn't put things clearly. lol!

Oh good on not inflammed, and if it's not liquid (and you can't feel liquid) I'd not try to aspirate it in case it's a hernia. I can't really see, and it seems that most cases of hernias that we've seen here you could see the textures of the convolutions of the intestines against the thin skin where the inner abdonminal lining was split; to me, in this photo anyway, it doesn't seem like that. I sure wish I could see her, feel her, in person. And you might be right about the normal weight - yes that makes a lot of sense.

 

[ruth]

It looks like ascites to me (fluid filled). I have a hen who used to suffer with it. I would drain her about every three months, getting about a cup or more of clear water out of her each time. Then she stopped filling back up and is alive and well and lays an egg daily.

The first time she filled up I had no idea what it was or what to do. She got so big she couldn't walk and her skin was tearing open and I was about to put her down but she was my first chicken and special to me so I figured I had nothing to lose so I got a needle/syringe and inserted it in the "bag" that hung down and withdrew a syringe full of clear fluid. I kept repeating (since the syringe was small) and drew out about a cup of fluid. Then the holes started leaking on their own so I put her on a stack of folded towels and she soaked them - sopping wet. But after she stopped draining, she started walking around and was good as could be for about three months when she started to fill again. That time I drained her much sooner and got about a cup of fluid. I had to do this approximately 4 times. It did not seem to hurt her and she would actually eat while I drained her. The last time I drained her the fluid was light broth colored and I was a bit worried but she never filled again after that.

 

[crazy huhn]

If I try to drain this, would you recommend any antibiotics?

She was eating a little bit today, but the droppings are still not firm (not surprising as she drinks more than she eats).
The other hen who used to have the diarrhea has firm but small droppings today (not surprising either as she does not eat much either).

 

[ruth]

Quote:
I didn't use any antibiotics. In fact, I almost never use them - even when I've sewn up hens that were horribly ripped open, or did crop surgery, or bumble foot surgery. I think antibiotics are overused and used inappropriately.

 

[crazy huhn]

Well, it has been now over 10 days and one girl seems to have firmer droppings and seems better while the other one with the swelling still has watery diarrhea. She eats a little bit, drinks a lot, is interested in her surroundings. Because of her still having the diarrhea, I have not tried to drain the swelling yet as I want to get the diarrhea under control first. Having said that, is it time to use antibiotics to fight the diarrhea and if so, what could be the most effective one without doing any more harm? I do have Duramycin or Pen G, but do not think that those are for diarrhea. Would a fecal test show bacteria, viruses or fungal infections, so maybe do that first just to know what I am dealing with here?