Swiss Mondaines

[CochinBrahmaLover]

So here I was, on a pigeon place asking Q about Swiss mondaine pigeons, some of which included butcher Qs, when I was informed (luckily politely) that butchering is frowned upon (and taking a look at the rules looks like something I could get banned for :| )

So I came to BYCer pigeon owners. Maybe their less no-butcher ?? I hope so, because I need help /:
(This was copied and pasted, so excuse for anything that's redundant)
Ok so we picked up 5 pairs of Swiss mondaine pigeons. I love them. Big, meaty birds. Beautiful, simple. But I have a few questions -
What age do you butcher? Once weaned or? What is the average butcher weight? How would you know, at such a young age, if they'd be better off as lunch then a breeder?
His birds are 2 colors - white and black. He has a few that were black, and then their flights turned white. They tend to throw a lot of white squabs, but no splash. Any way to explain these genetics?
Oh, and he gave me a free mutt - Swiss mondaine x swallow. Her feet aren't very feathered, but I want to preserve this best as possible. I only have 2, single, males that are ready to breed, 2 ferals. Nice body shape, small, pretty, but clean legged. And one seems to have a thing for the homers. How would I work to get some more feathers? She barely has feathers on her feet, but if I bred her to a clean legged would it be possible to get a few feathered babies, then breed them to each other (lol, incest doesn't happen fast in pigeons, does it? Would I be asking for problems?) to Inhance the feathers? Gahh, I love feathered feet.
Oh and what would you call her color?
Here's some pictures of both the mutt (last picture) and all the birds. The homers are the ash bar ones, the ferals are the silver grizzle and the pied grizzle

Very funny to watch the mondaines fly. With homers it's this graceful, beautiful purr, but with these guys it's like 'OH MY GOD *huff pant pant* CAN'T *huff huff pant pant* GO *pant* ANY *gasping for breath* MORE!" Lol

Oh and I think their moulting. I was holding a mondaine and it kept dropping feather shafts and feathers. I don't see mites, any other ideas? They all went straight for water when put in their aviary.
Oh (I feel stupid at this point, LOL) and I how much space do I need per pair? They don't seem cramped, but territorial wise I could see them being angry.

Thank you for any help... Currently reading this -
https://www.backyardchickens.com/t/204998/the-texan-pioneer-utility-pigeon-a-tutorial/10

 

[larrylofts]

the rulee of thumb to butcher at the time the feathers under the wings are all in at this age they are as heavy as the parents picking breeders you take the most productive pairs and keep there young and breed for that it is the way of all production meat animals looking at the pics they seem to be utilty swiss go to the texas pigeon assn . website there is a breeder of them with his website

 

[larrylofts]

swiss used to be know for just the white birds white is the prefered color for meat birds no unsightly color when plucked and ready for dispolse just like chickens

 

[Pigeon Power]

I have only meant one person in all my years of raising birds who ate one of his own birds...in a pie...pigeon pot pie....He was a hill person and is very hard to understand...but I always look forward to running into him because he is crazy and tells great stories. As for your questions I wouldn't know were to start...I myself don't like inbreeding or line breeding I find it creepy...however I don't have the best show birds either...this might be why...
As for watching fat pigeons trying to fly, I also enjoy this...I have an obese show homer male that always trying but really just flops about and gets confused...for some reason I find this endlessly adorable and amusing....

 

[Pigeon Power]

I have only meant one person in all my years of raising birds who ate one of his own birds...in a pie...pigeon pot pie....He was a hill person and is very hard to understand...but I always look forward to running into him because he is crazy and tells great stories. As for your questions I wouldn't know were to start...I myself don't like inbreeding or line breeding I find it creepy...however I don't have the best show birds either...this might be why...
As for watching fat pigeons trying to fly, I also enjoy this...I have an obese show homer male that always trying but really just flops about and gets confused...for some reason I find this endlessly adorable and amusing....

 

[CochinBrahmaLover]

Larry lofts -
Thank you. There were being used as meat pigeons, yes, but I looked at the standard and a few aren't half bad. I'm thinking ill do 2 different sections - breeders and meatier breeders. Meatier breeders will just be bred for big pigeons, fast growth. The others ill breed less often and show them. I see one boy who I think will throw some nice meaty squabs.

Yes, utility pigeons are rarely seen. In pigeon land, pigeons are 'feathered people' sure, and my Cornish X who would, given the choice, live in nothing but mounds of food, are my brother and sisters they're bred for meat, but frowned upon to butcher, LOL.

 

[JasoninMN]

I see your Swiss modaine post got deleted on pigeontalk even after you edited it. It's funny how a forum that claims to be so "pro" pigeon can be so narrow minded and ignorant. The pigeon hobby as a whole is declining rapidly and some how they believe treating these birds as lil feathered people is going to save it. They fact is if more people saw pigeons as a utility animal there would be more interest in them. The reason so many people keep chickens is for eggs or meat then they come to find out how much they enjoy them. The same goes for pigeons. Pigeon fanciers needs as many people to join the hobby as possible not to alienate them because a small percentage have some beliefs that are way out there/ Those few are the most dramatic and vocal though so control the forum. You want to see pigeontalk get real riled up, mention you sell you culls to dog trainers. Some of them lose their minds, literally.

You might find these posts interesting.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/poultry/468437-squab-essential-homesteaders.html

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/ge...estions/358898-anyone-raise-pigeons-meat.html

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/poultry/424877-squab-anyone.html

 

[Pigeon Power]

I would never raise my own birds for meat, it would make me sad however I have no problem with others who do. My husband and I raise rabbits for meat its no different...and I find it odd people would be put off by it...after all whats the difference an animal is animal and its based on your tastes as a person...However I do not agree with selling birds to dog trainers I find it cruel to put an animal thru a long painful scary death...inless they kill the bird first I'm not clear on the way its done. If your going to kill something for food or training ect just be humane about it

 

[CochinBrahmaLover]

I see your Swiss modaine post got deleted on pigeontalk even after you edited it. It's funny how a forum that claims to be so "pro" pigeon can be so narrow minded and ignorant. The pigeon hobby as a whole is declining rapidly and some how they believe treating these birds as lil feathered people is going to save it. They fact is if more people saw pigeons as a utility animal there would be more interest in them. The reason so many people keep chickens is for eggs or meat then they come to find out how much they enjoy them. The same goes for pigeons. Pigeon fanciers needs as many people to join the hobby as possible not to alienate them because a small percentage have some beliefs that are way out there/ Those few are the most dramatic and vocal though so control the forum. You want to see pigeontalk get real riled up, mention you sell you culls to dog trainers. Some of them lose their minds, literally.

You might find these posts interesting.

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/poultry/468437-squab-essential-homesteaders.html

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/ge...estions/358898-anyone-raise-pigeons-meat.html

http://www.homesteadingtoday.com/livestock-forums/poultry/424877-squab-anyone.html

LOL, preaching to choir.
I got my first 3 birds from a friend (dog trainer). I thought they were going to kill me and him. They really lose it.
And yes, they need people to join for a reason more then 'omg I love them', since its hard to get wrapped around that without having them. My friend said she wouldn't get attached to her chickens - I gave her a old hen of ours, and now she and her have morning conversations trust me, she wouldn't have gotten chickens for pets, but did enjoy that side once getting them.

Pigeon power - there's 2 types. There's pointers then there's killers. Killers are meant to go attack animals (ie pig dogs, bear dogs) but those usually are trained with rabbits. My friend has a pointer - they put the bird in a cage and have the dog smell it out. They simply point. Usually when their done with a bird, they shoot it (and he eats them) (so basically,,if the bird can out fly him he gets to live, otherwise they shoot the bird and the dog has to fetch it)
He only gets the nuisance birds that he traps from houses. He feeds them and keeps them in a pretty nice cage, too. I usually get pigeons from them - ill keep squeakers, and release full groans.


Thanks for the links, ill read them with my pigeon on my lap (nah, seriously, I'm holding one of my breeders, love her though)

 

[Pigeon Power]

Good to know..Thank you