Tapeworm blockage?

[sooky]

Gee when they say "sleep on it" it really brings results when the American backyard chicken community all wake up and get on line. Thankyou for all of your advice. I can see merit in all that's been suggested - even the crop surgery which had gone through my head as I massaged Sooky's pointlessly yesterday afternoon - though I'm not sure I'd be ready to really do it and while I agree that their understanding of pain may differ from ours, I don't see them seeking pain out on their own so for many reasons- I'll rule that out.
Anyway, the update - when I'd expected to find Sooky dead- is that she was alive and sitting in the nesting box at 6am where I'd put her to sleep. Still apparently unable to stand up, alll the others were happy and well.... I tossed up about feeding them all and leaving them locked up to do the 24 hour fast but decided to give it another day or so while I deal with Sooky. I let them out and went about raking out new poo. Out hobbles Sooky! using feet that were curling up under her just yesterday afternoon. She went straight for a Bromeliad drink and went about grazing with the others- occasionally checking her balance but now I think- sitting again -but some control and life back in her. She must have pooped over night and I cleaned that out and didn't identify any worm bits and she let out another squirt later so there's a bit of movement though I'm not going to hassle her to feel her crop just yet otherwise pics of slitting it open will go through my head...thanks for that!
The suggestion of a dropper of olive oil and the links provided give me hope that there is more that I can do.. I use apple cider vinegar in their enclosure water though wonder if I should be puttting it in the Bromeliads instead....
I'll give the oil a go and get some epsom salts and do that later and then I'll read read read more later on which chemical meds to place my faith in for future management of my flock. got to get daughter off to school and other stuff done too. Chooks will have to wait a bit.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

Don't let a good day fool ya ... you absolutely need to deal w/ the tapeworms now, or there may possibly not be a later. At minimum? Treat this one bird, for the tapeworms alone (praziquantel, albendazole, etc.), and then you've got plenty of time to consider all your options ...

 

[sooky]

I did give Sooky another dose of the wormer avitrol plus (praziquantel) the night before last which followed the dose I gave all of them the week before. I'll think about giving her a third dose in another week. Will that be too late to redose the others do you think?
Anyway, I gave Sooky a dose of olive oil - a couple of teaspoons from a syringe. She's still mobile - even dust bathed awkwardly- and her crop doesn't seem so hard but I've been out and about so don't really know what she's up to.
I really appreciate having this site and it's communtiy to work this out with. less isolating.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

I did give Sooky another dose of the wormer avitrol plus (praziquantel) the night before last which followed the dose I gave all of them the week before. I'll think about giving her a third dose in another week. Will that be too late to redose the others do you think?
Anyway, I gave Sooky a dose of olive oil - a couple of teaspoons from a syringe. She's still mobile - even dust bathed awkwardly- and her crop doesn't seem so hard but I've been out and about so don't really know what she's up to.
I really appreciate having this site and it's communtiy to work this out with. less isolating.

No, no ... didn't realize you'd wormed her less than two days ago (I've gotta get/keep my facts straight ... sorry ~'-)

Rather than using the Avitrol Plus next week? Consider those other alternatives that target specifically the tapeworm, since the roundworms are most certainly no longer a worry. That way, you're only puttin' into her what is required, rather than adding the second chemical compound, which isn't ...

Sounds as though she's turned the bend, and is headed back to bein' all happy again ...

 

[dawg53]

Cowcreek. There are no wormers that specifically target only tapeworms in chickens. The wormers that are currently on the market are designed to target "most" worms a chicken might get, and they are off label except wazine/piperazine. Wazine is useless against tapes. Chickens havnt elevated to the status as a pet like a dog or cat where specific wormers are manufactured specifically targeting a particular worm in a dog or cat. A good example that targets a specific worm in dogs or cats would be droncit, which specifically targets tapeworms. Even then, same story with dogs and cats...most of their wormers target most types of worms that dogs and cats can get. It actually saves money instead of having to buy individual wormers to target each type of worm, like "blanket coverage." Same is true for humans with alot of meds, albeit some have contraindications.
If anything, multiple dosings eliminate worm eggs hatched into larva or adults in the chickens system after the initial worming. There arnt any wormers that will kill eggs.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

Cowcreek. There are no wormers that specifically target only tapeworms in chickens. The wormers that are currently on the market are designed to target "most" worms a chicken might get, and they are off label except wazine/piperazine. Wazine is useless against tapes. Chickens havnt elevated to the status as a pet like a dog or cat where specific wormers are manufactured specifically targeting a particular worm in a dog or cat. A good example that targets a specific worm in dogs or cats would be droncit, which specifically targets tapeworms. Even then, same story with dogs and cats...most of their wormers target most types of worms that dogs and cats can get. It actually saves money instead of having to buy individual wormers to target each type of worm, like "blanket coverage." Same is true for humans with alot of meds, albeit some have contraindications.
If anything, multiple dosings eliminate worm eggs hatched into larva or adults in the chickens system after the initial worming. There arnt any wormers that will kill eggs.

I didn't word that very well; what I'm suggesting is to deliver a high-powered bullet to 100% of the tapeworms, rather than continuing to scatter all worms w/ birdshot ... this bird has been repeatedly under-dosed w/ praziquatel, unless she weighs less that 0.4 kg.

Mavlab markets Avitrol Plus in two different compositions: One (guessing US market?) contains 20mg of Levamisole hydrochloride w/o praziquantel, and the other (reportedly marketed w/in Australia) has the same 20mg + the addition of only 4mg of praziquantel (which is such a low dosage that it is highly probable that well over 3% of the adult tapeworms will remain, which increases the potential for drug resistance).

The Levamisole hydrochloride has been given repeatedly, at rates higher than req'd to be 100% effective, with the last dosage only two days ago (the roundworms are no longer an issue). The additional chemical compounds would be of no benefit to the bird.

From PubMed, Anthelmintic activity of praziquantel on Raillietina tetragona in chickens.
Praziquantel was tested against mature (17-day-old) and immature (7-day-old) Raillietina tetragona in experimentally infected chickens using single oral doses of 10, 7.5, 5, or 2.5 mg/kg body wt. The compound showed potent anticestodal activity, with 100% efficacy at 10, 7.5, and 5 mg/kg against immature worms and an efficacy of 100% 97.1%, and 95% against mature worms when given at 10, 5, and 2.5 mg/kg, respectively. Residual worms surviving drug treatment had less biomass than the controls. Praziquantel appears to be well tolerated by chickens, and treated birds showed no clinical reactions at any of the doses tested.

You've got some mad skills in regard to medications, along w/ a few other folks on here. And, I'd like to make this painfully simple for all peoples (folks ask, 'n we'd just send 'em to a web app that'd lead 'em to the appropriate treatment ~'-)

 

[dawg53]

Mad skills in meds lol...I have first hand experience in dealing with tapes and other worms...as well as other meds, I assure you. Experience my friend.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

Mad skills in meds lol...I have first hand experience in dealing with tapes and other worms...as well as other meds, I assure you. Experience my friend.

Once I get caught up on what shoulda been done before now, and the winter sets in completely, I'll be stuck indoors enough to do a bit of coding ... will be hopin' for a bit of input from your direction, once I get the bugs worked out ~'-)

 

[dawg53]

Quote: No problem. I'll be glad to help you out as best as I can.

 

[cowcreekgeek]

No problem. I'll be glad to help you out as best as I can.

CoOol ~'-)