Tell me about your internal layers

[suebee]

Teach, what a bittersweet story. I'm so sorry. Thanks for sharing.

Cyn, I'm not convinced it's a feed related problem, although someone had mentioned genetically altered corn. But until someone does a in depth study, I'm leaning towards genetics. According to my journal I've kept since '03, my first line I purchased and bred from, says all but 1 hen died from internal laying, starting at age 1 1/2!!!!!

From that line, I still have a hen that is 6 years old and laying occasionally. Of the roo's I kept from that line, one will turn 8 next week, other 7 years old. I do not breed from this line at all, so no offspring.

Next line I got 5 years ago and have not shown any internal laying problem and I've bred them. Their offspring girls do not show a problem so far either.
My 3rd line from another source is not showing problems. They are young but laying, so time will tell.

Total mystery to me, but I'm thinking along the lines of "Better genetics, less internal layers."

 

[speckledhen]

Dr. Peter Brown, who you may be familiar with, has told me that it's genetic/hormone based and there is nothing you can do to prevent it or fix it other than hysterectomy. When he found out that I had lost so many to the same exact malfunction, he even suggested I not get more birds from that hatchery.

I do think it's mainly the high production, most common hatchery stock (and not just from the one hatchery mine came from), the RIRs/Production Reds, sex links, Wyandottes, Plymouth Rocks and Buff Orps, generally, that are prone to it. My Brahmas are still laying well at over 4 years old and my banty Cochin is laying, though she has been egg bound twice and mildly prolapsed once. I have a Speckled Sussex pullet and a Silver Phoenix pullet from the same hatchery, but they are not what most think of as the most common hatchery breeds, so I have high hopes that they won't suffer from this within their lifetimes and that their genetic makeup is better.

I don't believe it has anything to do with the feed, either, but I was mentioning the way I do feed mine, only to say that you can do everything you can possibly do to insure their health, but in the end, their genetics may defeat you.


So sorry, Teach. And Sue, I have to agree with you on what you said:

Total mystery to me, but I'm thinking along the lines of "Better genetics, less internal layers."​

 

[Aj1911]

i just lost one of my favorite RIR's not 4 days ago to internal laying her name was butter

she would get up on my shoulder and ride around like a parrot, she was my sweetest RIR

i knew her genetics were off from day one as she was short, kinda wide and not shaped like the others


atm i suspect one of my GLW's is internal laying as well as she seems off with a large abdomen

 

[FisherMOM]

I found our 3 yr old GSL dead in the coop this morning. She has had internal laying issues in the past and was showing signs again yesterday.
Looks like she died while in her sleep as she was laying below the roost. There is also a leghorn the same age on the same path. both are/were hatchery birds.

 

[AbbyDog]

Unfortunately I think my 2 yr old Welsummer has this condition- and she survived and recovered from crop surgery this last winter. She had been laying very nicely during Jan and February (unlike the others)- but then stopped several weeks ago. The others were beating up on her a bit and she was choosing to sleep in a nest box until I built a third perch. So, I figured that maybe she was feeling harassed and would start to lay once she had some peace.

Anyway, this past week I finally had to admit that there was something really wrong with her- extended bloated abdomen, breathing heavy, walking in an exaggerated 'penguin' walk. I did a probe, felt nothing. Soaked her in warm water, no change. Now her poops are scant, watery and greenish and even though she still has good color and pecks around, I feel the end is coming. So sad for a bird that had recovered from a severely impacted crop and my hack surgery just months ago!

If anyone has found a miracle cure, please let me know. The scary thing is that another of my birds (same age, RIR) hasn't layed in more than a month and so I am looking at her with suspicion, too.

All birds get organic feed, scraps and yard access.

 

[eugeneliz]

I have been watching this thread for a while as we tried to figure out what was wrong with our 2yo hatchery RIR. We put her down this morning. Same symptoms as all of you have shared, culminating with an awful, disgusting - and, I'm sure, very painful - infection around her cloaica.

I am no expert, but there is so much anecdotal/photographic evidence shared here that I have to agree with earlier evaluation that internal laying is - in general - not a curable condition. It appears to cause the hen to suffer quite badly. In our case, we wanted to let nature take its course but our hen's last day was quite horrific for us and I can't imagine it was pleasant for her. It would have been better for us to not let it get to that point.

Anyone who is reading this: please consider putting your hen out of her misery before she gets worse. I would not wish what was happening to our hen on any other being. She was our absolute favorite and she layed an egg a day before she stopped laying. Despite her good days, I know now that she was not going to get better. I wish we would have forced ourselves to act sooner even though it was hard.

Honestly, if you can confirm a true laying problem, I think the best option is to cull. It's just a pointless, hard battle. It's VERY hard on the hen, it's a long battle that short of a hysterectomy doesn't have a fix, and with that - what's the use of a hen? Unless she's a VERY devoted mother who will happily raise chicks after surgery, and even then, it's EXPENSIVE.

.....
Agreed. If I've learned nothing else from it, it's this. There is no permanent recovery from this. It's a chronic condition without prevention or cure.​

 

[FisherMOM]

we culled our last leghorn a week after I posted in here about my GSL.
The only other hen that I can see heading this way is our leghorn/australorp cross.
her eggs are very odd shaped all of the time now, but she is only 2.
She has yet to have an internal laying issue yet.

sorry about your favorite hen eugeneliz.

 

[chics in the sun]

I read this whole thread, but haven't seen anyone mention what I had happen today with my White Leghorn. She is a hatchery chick (I believe the pet store is supplied by Ideal), a year and three months old. She quit laying about 3 weeks ago, but is acting perfectly fine. I picked her up today as I was talking to some friends that stopped by for eggs, and as I held her what appeared to be yolk and a soft, broken shell sort of fell out of her onto the ground. She feels slightly soft on one side of her vent, but otherwise is perfectly normal looking/ acting. I'm bracing for the worst. She is one of my favorite hens. She even went broody last year and raised 7 babies.

 

[WooingWyandotte]

I have to say a lot of problems in animals and humans come from GMO (genetically modified) corn and soy. I'm inclined to agree with speckledhen, I think GMO's have something to do with this internal laying issue.

 

[Carobean]

Great and disturbing discussion. We have one internal layer (Chicory, a barred rock from a hatchery, 3 1/2 years old) now that we're nurturing along. Decided not to do vet intervention after the first draining of fluid (that helped a lot, but on the next visit when I asked the vet to show me how to do it at home, he couldn't get fluid out--it's just fibrous yolky stuff, and he said the surgery to remove yolk and the hysterectomy are both very risky, and the Lupron shots are incredibly costly and we don't know how long we'd have to continue with them).

We also had a RIR from the same hatchery who died this spring of an ovarian tumor (she had laid well for a year, then stopped altogether and developed roosterish characteristics); eventually died quite suddenly after no symptoms other than runny stool, which the vet said was due to an overgrowth of clostridium; in retrospect probably because she was immune-compromised. Another barred rock from the same hatchery died last fall after becoming weaker and weaker during a hard molt--don't know what caused that one (we were sadly on vacation when she really went downhill and didn't have the chance to take her to the vet).

Anyway, I had been wondering if the early-onset problems were correlated not so much to hatchery birds as to breeding for heavy egg production, but of course that could be correlated to hatchery breeding too. I'd read that chickens (before intensive breeding for laying lots of eggs and being able to tolerate living short lives in factory-farm conditions) used to lay an average of 30 eggs a year, and of course eggs were seasonal. Now they can lay upwards of 300 eggs a year. That's a huge difference that just can't be good for their bodies.

So, is anyone seeing a correlation between long-lived birds that aren't as steady layers (regardless of the breed)? Or does anyone have experience with chickens breeds that are longer-lived, or perhaps an individual who was supposed to be a great layer that doesn't turn out to lay so well, but lives a long time? Our remaining healthy hatchery bird is a buff orpington who lays intermittently because she goes broody. Maybe this allows her system to rest and makes her healthier overall, and certainly it seems like the tendency to go broody is closer to a natural state.

I understand the concerns about GMO feeds and/or non-organic feeds (and now use a soy-free organic feed), and I have concerns about pesticide use in my neighborhood since I'm in a development with lots of lawn service users, but I'm starting to think the health problems are more a matter of overbreeding to select for heavy egg laying but not for long, healthy lives. Wouldn't effects from feed take longer to manifest than the short lifespans of some of the birds we're reading about in this thread? Maybe it's like overbreeding dogs to the point where they are prone to specific orthopedic problems (Dachsunds, German Shepherds) or cancers (golden retrievers)...