Théo and the chickens des Sauches

[Perris]

I found this quite informative for management and treatment options here
https://www.chickenvet.co.uk/coccidiosis

 

[Shadrach]

Diclazuril is an anti-protozoal drug mainly used in horses - its mechanism is not well understood but it is not related to the Vitamin B1 starvation of amprolium and from what I understand it attacks the coccidia organism directly.

The theory of the case on amprolium in medicated feed is to give it when very young chicks are exposed to coccidia for the first time. Their immunity is still developing and they can get overwhelmed so by making it harder for the coccidia to get established you give the chick time to develop its immunity.
As @Perris says, there is no point in doing that if the chick is in a sterile environment and not encountering any coccidia.
Then if a chicken actually has an infestation of coccidia - ie is suffering from coccidiosis - then a much higher dose of amprolium is given as a treatment not a preventative. I assume the method of action is the same but at a higher dose to try and interrupt the coccidia lifecycle.
I haven't looked into treatment but I imagine one would have to limit the duration in order to avoid B1 deficiency.
All that said, I am surprised amprolium requires a prescription in the EU but diclazuril can be added in feed. I would have put them the other way around in terms of safety etc.

Got to love not quite sure how it works but it does.
There's a whole group of them. They don't seem to clear on how a few of the others work either.

 

[RoyalChick]

Got to love not quite sure how it works but it does.
There's a whole group of them. They don't seem to clear on how a few of the others work either.

True enough. Something to be said for amprolium maybe - at least we know how it works!

 

[RoyalChick]

Getting back to @ManueB's flock any vet should be able to look at the chicken poop for coccidia and parasitic worm eggs.
It is no different from looking for the same things in cats and dogs.
I don't, but several folk on BYC do it themselves.
We haven't seen a picture of the concerning poop from Manue's chickens, but if I had to guess I would say they don't have coccidiosis unless they are sick with something else and their defenses are down. But a look under a microscope would settle that for sure.

 

[ManueB]

No, I don't think you are missing anything.
Not many chicks here on BYC do go out on natural ground at day two, or even close to that. Feeding medicated feed is one way to develop a tolerance.
Some people take clods of earth and put these in the brooder in an attempt to build up tolerance.

I only saw two broodiest hatch but in each case they did not take the chicks outside before they were about six days old. For this hatch, I did actually put some earth in their brooder because the climatic conditions were so different from usual ( raining every day) that I was afraid all kind of new harmful bacterias, parasites and nasties would suddenly appear .
Although apparently medicated feed is sold here since it can be bought online, I never saw any in the stores I go to. I would not have chosen medicated feed under my circumstances anyway.

The EU is not a single entity in regard to medication. EU global approval is only one possibility; labs can chose to have their meds approved by each national agency in the countries they want to sell, and they often do because the delays are more reasonable.

I found this quite informative for management and treatment options here
https://www.chickenvet.co.uk/coccidiosis

Indeed, thank you for the link.

Getting back to @ManueB's flock any vet should be able to look at the chicken poop for coccidia and parasitic worm eggs.
It is no different from looking for the same things in cats and dogs.
I don't, but several folk on BYC do it themselves.
We haven't seen a picture of the concerning poop from Manue's chickens, but if I had to guess I would say they don't have coccidiosis unless they are sick with something else and their defenses are down. But a look under a microscope would settle that for sure.

I don't have a microscope. I'll post pics tomorrow when cleaning the coop because of course my aggravating chickens are only doing normal poops for now ! I'm also not sure really that they have coccidiosis, just that these poops are out of the normal range and have been going on for a sufficient time to be worrying.

 

[RoyalChick]

I only saw two broodiest hatch but in each case they did not take the chicks outside before they were about six days old. For this hatch, I did actually put some earth in their brooder because the climatic conditions were so different from usual ( raining every day) that I was afraid all kind of new harmful bacterias, parasites and nasties would suddenly appear .
Although apparently medicated feed is sold here since it can be bought online, I never saw any in the stores I go to. I would not have chosen medicated feed under my circumstances anyway.

The EU is not a single entity in regard to medication. EU global approval is only one possibility; labs can chose to have their meds approved by each national agency in the countries they want to sell, and they often do because the delays are more reasonable.

Indeed, thank you for the link.

I don't have a microscope. I'll post pics tomorrow when cleaning the coop because of course my aggravating chickens are only doing normal poops for now ! I'm also not sure really that they have coccidiosis, just that these poops are out of the normal range and have been going on for a sufficient time to be worrying.

I wasn’t suggesting you scope the poop yourself, but you could maybe ask a vet to do it which they should be able to do even if they have never seen a chicken in their professional practuce!

 

[ManueB]

It's too warm here now ! (I shouldn't rant, now I have a follower from Texas and seen how we've been spared the last two months ). 34°c / 93f in the shade, which is the warmest we get here, and which means it's impossible to go under the sun. So I guess I will be posting in the afternoon while we're under heat alert, as it's not possible to do anything else.

I've got some poop pictures! I will put them underneath all the others in case you're looking at this during breakfast . But I have to say there were far less of these worrying poop this morning and today, and more normal poops, and plain diarrhea (from overdrinking in the heat I guess). I'll still call the vet tomorrow to know what the procedure would be for testing.

Picking the hay went great ! I managed to finished raking all the field into rows last night. We started at 5.30 after opening the coop, the nephews showed up at six and Amelia and her partner at 7, so we were done at 10 picking and carrying, and they had finished baling at 10.30. I couldn't believe it! It makes such a difference being more. Even my partner's father was there to help, he carried the trackbarrow filled with hay bags from above the house to the road. We picked 35 bags instead of 17 last year. And since my partner 's nephew also carried bags I only had to carry four which was very easy.

It was however a great deal of stress for the chickens as we had reduced by half their yard to make a path for us, and the track barrow made a lot of noise, and there were a lot of people, and all their morning routine was shaken up. But they seemed to get over it and all the small chickens were around us for the barbecue that my partner cooked for his nephews.

Now they are doing their best to keep cool. They all have wings wide spread and quite a few are panting, even the smaller leaner ones who usually suffer less like Merle and Piou-piou. It's the first really hot day, but we have a week of heat warning. I'm glad they have a lot of shade, all the trees have really grown. And I'm keeping the coop closed in the day so it hasn't gone above 21/71 for now. Some of the heavier chickens were still panting last night, probably more from lack of ventilation, so I think I will leave exceptionally the coop's door open in the next few nights. The run isn't 100% secure, but there are two different fences to cross before getting there, and up to now the only ground predators we have are foxes and dogs.

Speaking of which ... It turns out it wasn't the smaller dog that killed Amelia's roo but the collie, Oreo, that had taken and eaten broody Merle's egg last time. In the meantime he also ate their other rooster, and a pullet ! So they are rehoming him. And this means they are looking for at least one rooster, maybe two. If we're cleared for disease by then, that means possibly two male chicks will have a rather nice home very close by- they free range most of the time. As for the goats, it turns out they made her run for three hours on wednesday, so she's not letting them free anymore .

Poop pictures: first one with some red in it ( it shows brownish on the picture but it's red) Second one are light yellow poops a bit like caecal poop but totally liquid.

 

[GregnLety]

I sympathize with you for the heat. Try to schedule work early before it heats up and late when the sun is setting. Drink lots of water and some electrolytes too to prevent muscle cramps.

 

[Perris]

It's too warm here now ! (I shouldn't rant, now I have a follower from Texas and seen how we've been spared the last two months ). 34°c / 93f in the shade, which is the warmest we get here, and which means it's impossible to go under the sun. So I guess I will be posting in the afternoon while we're under heat alert, as it's not possible to do anything else.

I've got some poop pictures! I will put them underneath all the others in case you're looking at this during breakfast . But I have to say there were far less of these worrying poop this morning and today, and more normal poops, and plain diarrhea (from overdrinking in the heat I guess). I'll still call the vet tomorrow to know what the procedure would be for testing.

Picking the hay went great ! I managed to finished raking all the field into rows last night. We started at 5.30 after opening the coop, the nephews showed up at six and Amelia and her partner at 7, so we were done at 10 picking and carrying, and they had finished baling at 10.30. I couldn't believe it! It makes such a difference being more. Even my partner's father was there to help, he carried the trackbarrow filled with hay bags from above the house to the road. We picked 35 bags instead of 17 last year. And since my partner 's nephew also carried bags I only had to carry four which was very easy.
View attachment 3571369
View attachment 3571372
It was however a great deal of stress for the chickens as we had reduced by half their yard to make a path for us, and the track barrow made a lot of noise, and there were a lot of people, and all their morning routine was shaken up. But they seemed to get over it and all the small chickens were around us for the barbecue that my partner cooked for his nephews.

Now they are doing their best to keep cool. They all have wings wide spread and quite a few are panting, even the smaller leaner ones who usually suffer less like Merle and Piou-piou. It's the first really hot day, but we have a week of heat warning. I'm glad they have a lot of shade, all the trees have really grown. And I'm keeping the coop closed in the day so it hasn't gone above 21/71 for now. Some of the heavier chickens were still panting last night, probably more from lack of ventilation, so I think I will leave exceptionally the coop's door open in the next few nights. The run isn't 100% secure, but there are two different fences to cross before getting there, and up to now the only ground predators we have are foxes and dogs.

Speaking of which ... It turns out it wasn't the smaller dog that killed Amelia's roo but the collie, Oreo, that had taken and eaten broody Merle's egg last time. In the meantime he also ate their other rooster, and a pullet ! So they are rehoming him. And this means they are looking for at least one rooster, maybe two. If we're cleared for disease by then, that means possibly two male chicks will have a rather nice home very close by- they free range most of the time. As for the goats, it turns out they made her run for three hours on wednesday, so she's not letting them free anymore .
View attachment 3571379View attachment 3571381View attachment 3571382View attachment 3571392View attachment 3571393View attachment 3571395View attachment 3571396View attachment 3571398View attachment 3571400View attachment 3571403View attachment 3571404View attachment 3571405View attachment 3571406View attachment 3571407
Poop pictures: first one with some red in it ( it shows brownish on the picture but it's red) Second one are light yellow poops a bit like caecal poop but totally liquid.
View attachment 3571412
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lots of good news today! let's hope it continues with the rehoming cockerels...

I don't worry unduly about weird poops unless they are consistent and continue for a few days. They could have eaten anything while foraging and something that upsets it can take a day or three to clear their GITs.

 

[ManueB]

I sympathize with you for the heat. Try to schedule work early before it heats up and late when the sun is setting. Drink lots of water and some electrolytes too to prevent muscle cramps.

Yes, we'll adjust . The first days are the most difficult ! But it won't likely last as long since it began way later.

lots of good news today! let's hope it continues with the rehoming cockerels...

I don't worry unduly about weird poops unless they are consistent and continue for a few days. They could have eaten anything while foraging and something that upsets it can take a day or three to clear their GITs.

Yes, I totally agree. I noticed it I'm not sure exactly when, but more than a week ago ; and if I noticed it, it was because it was already going on for several days, and for two thirds of the chickens.
I'm thinking likewise the other way round : I will consider there is improvement if it lasts for several days and is true for most of the chickens.

I try not to get obsessed about it but I'm pretty sure by now we have five cockerels.