Théo and the chickens des Sauches

Tomorrow will mark one week of our little heart getting killed and we're both feeling blue tonight, looking at photos, sharing memories, and wishing things were different.

14_01_2023
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Do you think this might be a good time to relocate Theo and Merle to the woodshed, as they're troubled in the coop? It could resolve roosting issues.
Our perception has shifted dramatically regarding safety and that has become our first worry. I'm now certain what we saw was a beech / stone marten. It was apparently a small one for that specie, the size of a big dormouse. It went through a hole that was four cm wide, that's 1.5 inch. So we're afraid none of our chicken places are 100% safe and the woodshed is definitely not. We think we have managed to secure the coop, unless there is an underground tunnel to the adjacent wine cave that we can't see.

So for now, our best chance to keep everyone alive is to have them in the coop.

I also feel they need time to adjust. There has been a very slight progress at roosting, and I don't need to take Théo out of the coop anymore for Gaston to come in to roost. I want to take the time to see how things turn out, how the social.dynamics shift, to see if we should make changes. They are still reacting to the stress of the attack, and so are we.

We are going to begin securing the run as best as we can tomorrow, and it's not simple as it's leaning on one side against the house's old crooked wall and on the other on a terrace dry stone wall below. It will take time to be sure we leave no gap. It's also difficult to know what to use. There is no real equivalent of hardware cloth in France. What we have that I've bought here and that we had initially used to double the lower part of the chain link mesh is very flimsy, and I'm quite sure it could be shred in time by the marten's sharp teeth. It won't work to make a solid enough apron. I might use the mesh we buy for our bee hives, we've used it to protect our potatoes and ham pantry from the rats and it seems to hold itself in time, but it is sold in small size only. Or get something specific like this which is way more expensive but seems more sturdy.

I've also bought a hunting camera and a trap that should be delivered in the next days. I am not angry against the marten, but my partner is beating himself up for not having had fast enough reflexes to kill it. If we succeed in trapping it we will kill it.

I'm not up to sharing a post on Piou-piou's short life yet. And I don't have the spirit to talk about the chickens because while I'm not thinking all the time about it, when I'm with them it feels like her absence is overwhelming .
Still I want to share something curious : I think Chipie possibly tried to crow for the first time, this morning. Isn't it strange for a hen that is supposedly around seven or eight ? Do you think that's what she was trying to do ?
 
This is going to be a rather depressing post for Christmas 🙂 it happens to be a good time for me to post, as I'm on my own at home. I skipped tonight's dinner with my partner's family since they are at his uncle I don't really appreciate. My own family is coming over tomorrow, and staying overnight. I'm rather glad to have this bit of time alone, and Christmas is like any other day for me.

How the chickens reacted to Piou-piou's killing.

Many of my chickens have already been confronted to predators attacks, but it's the first time a chicken is killed by one.
The fact that it happened in the coop at night is as disturbing for them as it is for us. This was their safe place.
When the killing happened, Piou-piou, Théo and Merle were on their roost with Piou-piou close to the window.
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Her body and head were on the other side of the coop's entrance, so she must have gotten down somehow and be killed there. The screams we heard were from Merle. She and Théo were on the floor ; the weasel was on Piou-piou's window, I suppose it had climbed back to get another chicken, or it was trying to get out by the way it came when it heard us.
Apart Chipie who was in the nest just above that roost, all the other chickens were at the back of the coop, on the main roost.
We chased the weasel out and I remained with the chickens until they decided to get off the roost. Théo stayed on the floor, walking around looking totally dazed. I tried once to put him back on his roost and he immediately flew down.
Merle flew on the main roost next to Gaston.

Gaston started making sad soft sounds like he does when something disturbs him. This went on for about ten minutes. I think he knew Piou-piou was dead. Remember she was his first sweetheart and they still had a strong bond, though they very rarely saw one another.
For many of the other chickens, Piou-piou had become a complete stranger. She only roosted at night with them, but they never saw her during the day, since last summer she had been living completely outside the chicken yard. Clearly the less disturbed hens were the ones who didn't have any relationship with her : Alba, Nieva, Lily, Kara, Laure, and Lulu. Mélisse and Annette were a bit more upset as they spent time with her in the garden, especially Mélisse, who hanged out with Théo's team for a few months before they rejected her ; Léa was really shocked.

It took them a very long time to come off the roost ; they waited until it was complete day light, so that's about half an hour later than usual

During the day it seems most of the chickens got pretty quickly over the fact that she wasn't there anymore, except for Théo and Merle. Since Merle had begun coming out and laying again, the three of them were spending most of the day together, and this was how they did things whenever Merle wasn't broody, so this was a huge change. And they were also the more directly threatened.

Roost time, however, is very difficult. For one thing, understandably, the chickens are really frightened to go in the coop. They are fine hanging there in the morning, but they don't want to go back inside for the night. The hens begin coming in, look everywhere inside the coop, and go out again. One or two climb on the roost then come down again. It doesn't help that the most anxious is Gaston. Once almost all the hens are on the roost and realise he is not coming, they go back down to him in the run. It takes a lot of coaxing and quiet talk to get them in.

The second issue is that naturally Merle and Théo don't want to sleep on their roost at all. They now want to roost at the very opposite, at the back of the coop. I had a system that was more or less working taking Gaston elsewhere while Théo went to roost and hiding Théo from Gaston's sight with panels. This doesn't work anymore. So now not only is Gaston really stressed to go roost but once he is on his roost he has only one idea - to walk across the roost go fight Théo. Then the hens, who were really mean already to one another, are even worse, because Merle and Théo have taken one of the preferred place for the hens that are higher in the pecking order. It's complicated and I try really hard to stay calm so as not to make things more upsetting.

With Piou-piou there was a very fragile balance between both roosters and their team, or let's say a way of making them coexist without killing one another. Her disappearance has broken that balance.

How I'm reacting.
I'm putting that part in a spoiler for two reasons. One, it's gloomy and miserable. Two, it's a bit personal. This thread really helps me keep track of my chicken journey and this is part of it, so it belongs there. But I don't feel comfortable sharing.

I knew it would be difficult when I would lose Piou-piou because the attachment I had for her was stronger than for any other chicken. It brings me back to the first losses we had when Vanille and Caramel died a week apart and I sort of wallowed in a muddy dark hole for two months. I was completely taken by surprise then, because I didn't realise at all I would be so depressed, especially since these hens had a stronger bond with my partner. This time I'm not surprised to be so hurt but the death was so unexpected it's hard for me to grasp. Probably because she went from being a feral little runt that did not care at all for humans, to the most familiar and trusting of our chickens, in the process of healing from her wound, she had become very special for us. Apart from my partner I can spend weeks here without talking to another human and Piou-piou at this stage was probably one of the living being I cared the most for.

I can accept how she died. I do feel bad that we could have avoided it, but not guilty, because we really couldn't know. From what we saw and heard I think the wound was quick and clean and if she was terrified, it didn't last.
But it's very hard to realise she's gone. I can't accept she's already a memory. She spent so much time with us that we are constantly reminded of her absence. We keep looking for her and calling her without thinking. It feels so empty having lunch outside without her perched on the chair behind my partner's shoulder.

I know that I will get over it much quicker than with Vanille and Caramel because I understand what's going on in my head now. I'm curious to see how long. For the time being it's grim. My partner, who also cared a lot for Piou-piou, has a lot more distance. He says after Vanille's death he decided not to get too emotional with the chickens. It's unpleasant for both of us that we're not responding in the same way and we're not really comforting each other. My partner is upset at Théo for not calling an alarm. When he's angry he says he's useless now that Piou-piou is gone, and we should get rid of him. It's ugly to say that we both would have preferred if he had been the one killed but I don't think it's his fault, he is upset too, and I don't see why he should take the blame for Piou-piou's loss.

We did agree to take some time after Christmas to double with hardware cloth the parts of the run that don't have any, pour some more concrete on the weaker side, and try to spot any possible weakness for a small weasel to get in.
Oh Manue. So sad for all of you - human and chicken alike.
She leaves a big hole in your hearts, but you will heal and try to remember the good times - many are recorded here in this thread. She was a tough little lady and lived life on her terms.
🥰
 
There is no real equivalent of hardware cloth in France.
And if you search for mesh used to build a ‘voliere’ , big cages for song birds?

It’s sold in the Netherlands/Germany for a good price at Hornbach.
Volièregaas 12,7x12,7 mm x500cm Ø1,05 verzinkt
36,95 €* (7,39 €*/ m)

https://www.hornbach.nl/p/volieregaas-12-7x12-7x500cm-o1-05-verzinkt/6239064/

To attach a run to a stone wall I would buy a outdoor quality pole (chestnut, oak, robinia) drill holes through the poles and attach it with plugs and large stainless steel screws. Fill up the holes next to the wall with concrete.
But maybe there are better ways? Are there no posts on the internet resolving your problem?

For the bottom: Can you make a trench to get the poles and hwc in the soil? If not I suppose you need to drill holes for the poles and make slabs with bricks /pavement in concrete on top.

If its only for the mornings around sunrise and the evenings before sunset, to keep them safe, you don’t need a very large run.
What size do you have in mind?

stone marten
I used google to translate our ‘steenmarter’ to English and it said stone marten, but thats not the right translation. I don’t remember the right name.
Because the killer is so small I suspect its a weasel.
https://www.vwt.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/MustelidLeaflet.pdf
 
@ManueB
I am so sorry for your loss. I've always really loved Piou-piou. She is like a miracle chicken to me. I've always rooted for her. She was such a darling and I was happy to see her pictures where all her back feathers were grown back.

Thank you for sharing the whole process and reflections. I hope the whole flock has adapted better after a week. Hugs to you and your partner!
 
My turn to thank everyone who had a kind thought for little Piou-piou. It's not pleasant either to write or to read about one of our chicken's death when it's difficult to cope with, and your support means a lot.
@ManueB
I am so sorry for your loss. I've always really loved Piou-piou. She is like a miracle chicken to me. I've always rooted for her. She was such a darling and I was happy to see her pictures where all her back feathers were grown back.

Thank you for sharing the whole process and reflections. I hope the whole flock has adapted better after a week. Hugs to you and your partner!
@lightm she certainly had her share of miracles, especially when we locked her up with the fox in the shed.
But this time it was the other way round - bad luck. If it had happened the day before, Merle had called loudly to be let out of the coop to lay very early, and I would have already been there at the time the marten came. And while we usually open our shutters at breakfast to hear better any noise from the coop that's just under our kitchen, we had left them closed that morning due to the wind.

It seems the chickens have come to term with it now, and things are going back to normal, except no one wants to sleep on the roost where Piou-piou had been sleeping with Théo and Merle for many months.
I hope you, and your husband, are also adapting to the house without Honey :hugs


Saturday morning, coming back from running I came upon my neighbour Amelia. The marten has killed one of her hens too, on the 26, 4 days after Piou-piou. They are setting a trap for it today. We are both hoping one of us catches it.
And if you search for mesh used to build a ‘voliere’ , big cages for song birds?
It’s sold in the Netherlands/Germany for a good price at Hornbach.
Volièregaas 12,7x12,7 mm x500cm Ø1,05 verzinkt
36,95 €* (7,39 €*/ m)

https://www.hornbach.nl/p/volieregaas-12-7x12-7x500cm-o1-05-verzinkt/6239064/

To attach a run to a stone wall I would buy a outdoor quality pole (chestnut, oak, robinia) drill holes through the poles and attach it with plugs and large stainless steel screws. Fill up the holes next to the wall with concrete.
But maybe there are better ways? Are there no posts on the internet resolving your problem?

For the bottom: Can you make a trench to get the poles and hwc in the soil? If not I suppose you need to drill holes for the poles and make slabs with bricks /pavement in concrete on top.

If its only for the mornings around sunrise and the evenings before sunset, to keep them safe, you don’t need a very large run.
What size do you have in mind?


I used google to translate our ‘steenmarter’ to English and it said stone marten, but thats not the right translation. I don’t remember the right name.
Because the killer is so small I suspect its a weasel.
https://www.vwt.org.uk/wp-content/uploads/2015/04/MustelidLeaflet.pdf
I'll try to answer all your points, thank you for taking the time to think this through.
We are almost sure it's a marten because I live next to a wildlife reserve that updates an inventory of species on the territory through their camera observations. There is a known marten presence, but no weasel, or any other mustelidae. What we saw was dark brown tabby and had a white collar.
Wikipedia says beech marten and stone marten can be used for the same animal, Martes foina (which isn't listed in the comparative you sent) but I'm not able to say if that's right : https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beech_marten
I may not have been clear that we are not building a new run, but securing the one we have, which is about 15m2. When that's done, we will secure the wood shed. We need about 50x1 meters of hard cloth mesh. The brands that can be shipped here in a matter of days are all chinese ; i've ordered one of those, with a lower gauge than what we previously had. (I have had bad experiences with chinese mesh in the past, but maybe that was bad luck). French mesh producers don't do that kind of mesh, or in very small pieces. Some sites do ship brands from the NL or Germany, but with the holidays the delay is two to three weeks and we want to start now.
Yes, we might be filling with concrete on top of a mesh apron both on the floor ( there is just one portion, above the terrace wall, where the mesh is not already covered in concrete), and for the roof, underneath the rafter that's holding the polycarbonate sheets. And no, we can't dig or only superficially, but all our poles are already set in concrete.


Théo and Merle are still spending most of the day together but when Merle goes back in the chicken yard, Théo is alone outside. This will likely become a problem. For now, things are getting a little more quiet, with some human intervention at roost time.

It's the end of the year. I'm grateful to everyone who read and comment on this thread. I hope you'll stick around in 2025 !

A few pictures yesterday and today : the run needs securing, and the chickens.
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