Thanksgiving turkeys

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I raised two toms for thanks giving, 120 for a turkey isn't too far off of an estimate. LOL Each of my 35lb dressed (50lb live) turkeys ate $75 of feed EACH! Each chick was I think 6 bucks, and it took 5 months of time to raise them. I didn't even feed organic and free ranged them. Unless you can buy food in bulk, those things really do eat people out of house and home.
 
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Don't forget about those yummy injections of turkey flavoring so the turkey will taste like what people think turkey is supposed to taste like until they have a home grown real turkey.
 
I pre ordered an amish free range turkey today for $2 per pound. It will be fresh and ready for pick up on Wed. before Thanksgiving. The healthfood store is selling frozen, organic, hormone free turkeys for 3.99# Not sure how they are selling them for those prices but I'll take them.
 
hmmm, i think we'll celebrate the holiday with either a venison roulade or a nice souffle courtesy of our girls. My husband and kids don't much care for turkey store bought is tasteless cardboard, wild is lean and tough. Sounds like we can't afford to try the alternative!
 
Our turkey is being raised at a nearby farm where I milk a cow once a week so I see the conditions they are kept in and am happy with them. It will cost us $50, but I don't yet know what the weight will be. We are happy to pay that $50. Our steer that has been raised at the same farm will ultimately cost us about $5/lb after we pay the butcher for cutting and wrapping. It takes some work to find locally raised food that won't put us in the poor house, but luckily it can be found.
 
No way that i'd pay that price for a turkey... no way in hell. $120 for a turkey..
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My mouth is watering just thinking about it.


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If you're going to argue these points it might be a good idea to educate yourself as to slaughter and commercial farming practices first. The barns you mention are not nearly as prevalent in the turkey industry as they once were. All birds are not effectively stunned prior to the slitter, even those who are stunned are forcibly uncrated and shackled prior to stunning. This is legal in poultry as they're not covered under the same humane standards of slaughter as are larger livestock. There is no evidence that the stunning capacities most widely used in US plants are effective in accomplishing insensibility in birds, they're set for meat quality, not animal comfort. Many birds receive painful and stressing jolts prior to going into the stunner, this is more common with turkeys. The idea that "they never wake up" is comforting but absolutely inaccurate. The duration of unconsciousness (or paralysis if unconsciousness is never attained -- and there is no evidence that it is) is directly proportionate to the shock received. Because low jolts produce the best meat quality the birds are very much at risk of regaining consciousness during bleed out and/or prior to the scald vat. There is usually a back-up employee on the line whose job is to catch birds who were missed by the kill machine and manually slit, but because of high line speeds catching these birds is difficult at best. Catching all is downright impossible. While you're correct that it is protocol to condemn the animals who are killed by manners other than slaughter (those that drown in the scald vat) that in no way means that the animals do not make it to human consumption. Condemned animals are inspected and as long as there is no sign of disease or worry of making humans ill (drowned birds will not make humans ill) they can be and are released back into the line. The color of the meat is of little consequence in processed and packaged products where it can be dyed and flavored. The statistics for those birds that are drown in the scald vat are estimated to be more like 3% or 300 in 10,000 not 1 in 10,000, btw.

There are more effective methods of high-capacity humane slaughter for poultry, but they're more expensive. And, as evidenced here, Americans like their cheap meat -- most going so far as to deny what indirect costs that cheap meat really comes at -- so the American slaughter industry is reluctant to employ them.
 
If you're going to argue these points it might be a good idea to educate yourself as to slaughter and commercial farming practices first.

Thank you, however I am 2 credits away from receiving my poultry science degree from the UofA.

The barns you mention are not nearly as prevalent in the turkey industry as they once were. All birds are not effectively stunned prior to the slitter, even those who are stunned are forcibly uncrated and shackled prior to stunning.

Yes, shackling and crating is done without stunning. But it is in a dark room. It is no different than a bird being removed from a cardboard box and then tied upside down with a killing cone.

This is legal in poultry as they're not covered under the same humane standards of slaughter as are larger livestock. There is no evidence that the stunning capacities most widely used in US plants are effective in accomplishing insensibility in birds, they're set for meat quality, not animal comfort.

Yes, but part of this was done in response to pressure from animal rights groups. It just happens to be that meat quality is better when using specific settings order to render the birds incapable of movement.

Many birds receive painful and stressing jolts prior to going into the stunner, this is more common with turkeys. The idea that "they never wake up" is comforting but absolutely inaccurate.

When referring to "never waking up", I mean because the birds are immediately slitted and scalded. The slitting of the throat, through loss of blood will also cause the bird to lose consciousness shortly before death.

Because low jolts produce the best meat quality the birds are very much at risk of regaining consciousness during bleed out and/or prior to the scald vat.

Again, the birds are immediately slitted and will not regain consciousness. I was standing near the manual slitter for 8 hours. Not a single bird was missed and continued into the scalder. It could be that he was extra diligent because I was there however I am highly doubtful as it the plant managers would easily be able to track which person did not do their job correctly and would deduct the loss product sales from his/her paycheck. It simply makes more sense to slit each and every bird properly.

Condemned animals are inspected and as long as there is no sign of disease or worry of making humans ill (drowned birds will not make humans ill) they can be and are released back into the line. The color of the meat is of little consequence in processed and packaged products where it can be dyed and flavored. The statistics for those birds that are drown in the scald vat are estimated to be more like 3% or 300 in 10,000 not 1 in 10,000, btw.

Correct, but I was assuming that we were speaking of whole bird products since the OP was going to purchase the entire bird. Parts of the birds that are not damaged by the scalding tank will be used in processed products. (Makes you want to eat those turkey sandwiches now huh?) Could you please cite your statistics? I'd be interested in reading the information.

There are more effective methods of high-capacity humane slaughter for poultry, but they're more expensive. And, as evidenced here, Americans like their cheap meat -- most going so far as to deny what indirect costs that cheap meat really comes at -- so the American slaughter industry is reluctant to employ them.

I honestly cannot understand why it is a huge ordeal? Animals being cared for in the industry are by far treated more humanely than those that must face predation, starvation, disease, etc. in other countries. Other countries do not care how the animal is killed, only that they are able to eat it. True, our nation shows more compassion but until something can be created that appeases both animal rights groups and industry, I sincerely doubt that anything will change drastically in the slaughter method. Other countries use gas to subdue animals, personally, I can think of nothing worse other than burning to death. Still yet others use no sort of stunning method, again, much like do-it-yourselfers, however most home-grown animals in the US are treated much better before dispatching than those from other countries.

Some prefer the taste of the homegrown birds, others prefer to know what was put into their birds. I prefer a cheap product that was inspected and is at least safer to eat than a bird that could have been exposed to endless amounts of diseases from wild birds, predators and poor flock integration. I also prefer to eat something that has been bled out properly and I know has not suffered unduly due to my own poor dispatching techniques which could ruin the meat entirely.​
 
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Like I said, it might be a good idea to educate yourself. You've already proven you've drunk enough of the hand-poured government kool-aid to hydrate an army, now go do some independent research.
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Yes, shackling and crating is done without stunning. But it is in a dark room. It is no different than a bird being removed from a cardboard box and then tied upside down with a killing cone.

No difference between shackles and a killing cone? You really believe that, eh?

Yes, but part of this was done in response to pressure from animal rights groups.

What was? The stunning vats? That and for ease of handling.

It just happens to be that meat quality is better when using specific settings order to render the birds incapable of movement.

Yep, that's what I said. Better meat quality. Not comfort of the animals being slaughtered. Are you stealing my points now?
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LOL!

When referring to "never waking up", I mean because the birds are immediately slitted and scalded. The slitting of the throat, through loss of blood will also cause the bird to lose consciousness shortly before death.

Pedal harder. You're not backing up quickly enough.
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Again, the birds are immediately slitted and will not regain consciousness. I was standing near the manual slitter for 8 hours. Not a single bird was missed and continued into the scalder. It could be that he was extra diligent because I was there however I am highly doubtful as it the plant managers would easily be able to track which person did not do their job correctly and would deduct the loss product sales from his/her paycheck. It simply makes more sense to slit each and every bird properly.

You don't think you missed any birds either? That's quite an ego.

Correct, but I was assuming that we were speaking of whole bird products since the OP was going to purchase the entire bird.

Pedal, pedal, pedal.

Could you please cite your statistics? I'd be interested in reading the information.

I could. Could you?

If the 3% stat is what you're looking for try this: http://www.humanesociety.org/assets/pdfs/farm/organization-the-welfare-of-birds-at-slaughter.pdf

It's originally sourced from a publication not, to my knowledge, available online but is cited in that publication.

I honestly cannot understand why it is a huge ordeal?

You cannot see a problem with subjecting animals to undue suffering? Interesting.

Animals being cared for in the industry are by far treated more humanely than those that must face predation, starvation, disease, etc. in other countries. Other countries do not care how the animal is killed, only that they are able to eat it.

What countries? The U.S. has some of the most abhorrent slaughter and livestock rearing practices of the developed world.

True, our nation shows more compassion but until something can be created that appeases both animal rights groups and industry, I sincerely doubt that anything will change drastically in the slaughter method.

Aside from the part where you think "our nation shows more compassion" we agree here.

Other countries use gas to subdue animals, personally, I can think of nothing worse other than burning to death.

First, burning to death? You do realize when they say they use "gas" they are speaking of asphyxiation, yes?

Second, you can think of no worse death than burning to death but yet see no problem with birds going into the scalding tank alive?

Still yet others use no sort of stunning method,

As even you admitted above, there is no evidence that the birds are stunned in commercial slaughter in the U.S. The electric shock in the stunners is set for meat quality not animal comfort. It's unclear what, exactly, the birds experience after that shock. They are not able to move, but that does not guarantee they are unconscious or that they stay that way.

again, much like do-it-yourselfers,

Wait a minute there. Don't go digging yourself a hole. Just a moment ago you defended commercial slaughter saying that if the stun didn't work the slitting of the throat would cause the bird to lose consciousness just before death. Now you say do-it-yourselfers don't render the bird unconscious. So which is it? Is slitting without stunning okay for commercial processes but not "do-it-yourselfers"? Why the double standard?

however most home-grown animals in the US are treated much better before dispatching than those from other countries.

As above, what other countries? And what evidence do you have that mistreatment and predation is more prevalent there than in the U.S.? Are you comparing commercial flock to commercial flock or commercial flock to non-commercial flock?

Some prefer the taste of the homegrown birds, others prefer to know what was put into their birds. I prefer a cheap product that was inspected

Regulation requires inspection for birds processed at large facilities, don't assume that means it happens 100% of the time.

and is at least safer to eat than a bird that could have been exposed to endless amounts of diseases from wild birds, predators and poor flock integration.

Apparently food borne illness v. just plain old illness will be covered in your last two credits.

I also prefer to eat something that has been bled out properly and I know has not suffered unduly due to my own poor dispatching techniques which could ruin the meat entirely.

The turkeys we're discussing in this thread are not being sold live, if your processing skills are subpar no worries, it's of no consequence.
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