The Aloha Chicken Project

[fosterson]

Its been awhile since I've been on this thread. Looks like your making good progress. I ended up getting a good deal on some Swedish Flower Hens and so went that way. I applaud your efforts, I just didn't have the space to do your project justice. I noticed that at one point it was said that "ginger" doesn't appear in SFHs. Here are a few photos of some of my red/white hens.

Wow, Bernie, they're pretty!

Any chance you would be willing to ship eggs from a red and white/red and white combo?

 

[Bernie56]

Wow, Bernie, they're pretty!

Any chance you would be willing to ship eggs from a red and white/red and white combo?

I normally wouldn't put red/white over red/white because most SFH folks want color, but I definitely could. I have some small breeder pens that I can set up any way that I need to. I would just need to know how many eggs that you're looking for, and when you want them. I would need about 3 weeks minimum for a specific pairing. I'm expecting my NPIP certification in the next week, so after that I'll be all set. I am getting some eggs now, but its a little slow, as my birds are at the end of their molt. I'd be happy to help any way that I can.

 

[fosterson]

I normally wouldn't put red/white over red/white because most SFH folks want color, but I definitely could. I have some small breeder pens that I can set up any way that I need to. I would just need to know how many eggs that you're looking for, and when you want them. I would need about 3 weeks minimum for a specific pairing. I'm expecting my NPIP certification in the next week, so after that I'll be all set. I am getting some eggs now, but its a little slow, as my birds are at the end of their molt. I'd be happy to help any way that I can.

Alright. I'll bug you closer to spring because right now it's too cold to get shipped eggs. I live 30 miles from the Canadian border and there's a good chance the dang things would FREEZE before I could get them out of the mail. :/

 

[alohachickens]

Its been awhile since I've been on this thread. Looks like your making good progress. I ended up getting a good deal on some Swedish Flower Hens and so went that way. I applaud your efforts, I just didn't have the space to do your project justice. I noticed that at one point it was said that "ginger" doesn't appear in SFHs. Here are a few photos of some of my red/white hens.



I would suggest that if you are using Swedish roosters, get a red/white one. My original birds were red/white, and it has taken me two years, and 3 different lines to start getting more of the different colors. I do love the red/white, but I wanted a variety of color as well. Good luck with your project, and Happy Thanksgiving everyone!

Oh, Bernie56, these are just lovely. What do you think causes the red/white? Do you think these are Splash with Red?

I would love to try a few eggs from this pen. Maybe I could find out if this is white mottling, or "mock white" that is part of the Splash (blue) color gene. There would be a very easy way to tell, if I was to hatch out a chick of this type and cross into my flock that does not carry any Blue, if any of the chicks showed Blue that would tell me for sure.

If this is "true" white mottling, just an excess of it, it would work so well in my flock! Let me know what you think - or if the Swedish folks have done more research on this color? I am a bit confused as to what it is. All I do know, is I fell in love with Swedish Flowers based on that original Swedish Flower photo posted on Feathersite:


These are the Swedish Flower chickens I saw on Feathersite, and what I've been trying to re-create here, ever since! NO WAY would anyone mistake those for a Speckled Sussex!

I just don't understand why any of the recent imports ended up looking nothing like these ones? It's puzzling! Where did THIS pair of hens go? LOL!!!

 

[alohachickens]

Bernie56 - if the above post is a little confusing (not sure?) just wanted to explain . . .

Here is a gorgeous Splash Orpington photo:

http://www.dodaj.rs/f/e/Ce/3SKWSiIm/1/l1060161a.jpg

This chicken is not spotted, it's Splash, which is of course two copies of the Blue gene. On top of a Black Orpington. Which means, this is actually a Black Orpington, with two copies of Blue. Not a "mottled" chicken at all.

Through the years, I've had a lot of folks tell me I should use those "spotted" Splash chickens. But of course, if you cross a Splash Orpington to a Black Orp, you get a solid gray (blue) chicken. Not a mottled chicken. So the Splash makes this kind of false-mottled color that looks like Mottled, but isn't Mottled! For this reason, I removed Blue from my flock. Not because I don't like it, it's a lovely color! I just don't want to get mixed up and think I have a Mottled chicken, when in reality, maybe I have a Splash chicken.

OK, so here's the weird thing, Splash is genetically Blue, and Blue takes Black and lightens it to Gray. But, it has zero effect on Red/Gold colors.

So, on a Blue Laced Wyandotte, Splash can look like this:

http://www.frizzledfeathersfarm.com/photos/blrw splash hen.jpg

See how much "white" is showing?

I have even seen a few Wyandottes that look like this:

http://www.antichemurge.it/wp-content/uploads/2012/12/laced-wyandotte.jpg

Which is getting really, really close to the color I see in some Swedish - the red and white color with the white head. But genetically, that Wyandotte is a red chicken with black lacing, and two copies of Blue. It does not have any "white" lacing or "white" spotting. That's an illusion, the blue lightened the black to gray with the first "hit" of the gene, then since it is Splash, it hit it again, making the gray color a super pale shade!

So I'd be very curious to find out from the Swedish breeders, if this red and white color is a form of Splash? What color is it, I wonder? Do you know any info? I truly don't know what it is! Or how it works when crossed with other colors like Mille or brown Mottled. What have your experiences been working with it?

 

[alohachickens]

Here are a couple more links to Blomme Hons (on Swedish language pages) that look more like the "original" Swedish Flower photos that I saw online.

Check out the amount of white on this hen, plus note her upright tail carriage:

http://hons.ifokus.se/articles/51e5...svenska-lantraser-skansk-blomme?discussions-1

That really spotty hen on the bottom, with all the white on the head and tail, is what I'm trying to reproduce here. Note that is not Blue or diluted Blue (Splash) as the hen clearly shows true Black feathering in other areas of her body.

Then on the bottom left of this page, on one small pic, there is a dark brown crested Swedish hen. Next to her is a non-crested hen with a lot of white, and a pale brown color to her breast:

http://www.sunnanahast.se/hons.html

She also shows true "black" spotting in both her tail and her neck, so that tells me she is not Splash. That is truly how much white feathering she carries. I have managed to duplicate this look in a few Alohas so far:



But not in one as large as a Swedish Flower hen. Just in small size.

Very excited about the appearance of that super-spotty Sussex roo in WA. I hope the breeder gets more "oddball" chicks like that! Now he knows to send them to the Aloha project!

 

[Bernie56]

Oh, Bernie56, these are just lovely. What do you think causes the red/white? Do you think these are Splash with Red?

I would love to try a few eggs from this pen. Maybe I could find out if this is white mottling, or "mock white" that is part of the Splash (blue) color gene. There would be a very easy way to tell, if I was to hatch out a chick of this type and cross into my flock that does not carry any Blue, if any of the chicks showed Blue that would tell me for sure.

If this is "true" white mottling, just an excess of it, it would work so well in my flock! Let me know what you think - or if the Swedish folks have done more research on this color? I am a bit confused as to what it is. All I do know, is I fell in love with Swedish Flowers based on that original Swedish Flower photo posted on Feathersite:


These are the Swedish Flower chickens I saw on Feathersite, and what I've been trying to re-create here, ever since! NO WAY would anyone mistake those for a Speckled Sussex!

I just don't understand why any of the recent imports ended up looking nothing like these ones? It's puzzling! Where did THIS pair of hens go? LOL!!!

I understand completely! Those are the first Swedish Flower photos that I saw as well! Imagine my disappointment when out of my dozen eggs I hatched 7 chicks, 4 roosters (3 red/white and one red/gold), and 3 pullets (2 splash and one red/white). I kept the 3 pullets, a red/white rooster and the red/gold rooster, so I know there was a big splash influence in those first chicks. These two hens are from that group. I hatched over 50 chicks that first season, and got all but one red/white or splash. I had 1 little black and white chick that is the beautiful blue hen in my avatar. I culled the first two original splash hens, and all of the splash chicks, and kept only the hens with the most mottling for my breeding pens. I picked up some dark chicks from a lady in Alabama, and kept some black based roosters from that group. I am getting more color now, but still have a lot of red/white showing up in the chicks. I don't know a lot about chicken genetics so I'm not really sure how to answer your "splash", "mock white" question, just thought that if you are using Swedish roosters a red/white one may work for you. I am still working to bring my flock to the level of mottling of those first two hens as well. I do cull heavily for splash, and red/white, and pull the pullets with the best mottling for my breeding pens. I would be happy to put together a pen for some eggs for your project. I seriously considered joining you several years ago, before I got my original eggs, but didn't feel like I could really do the project justice. Maybe I can contribute in this way. I have a nice red/white rooster (he does have a lot of blue) that I was going to put over some red hens with minimal mottling in hopes of increasing their mottling. Most of the red/white girls are with a large red/gold (black based) rooster. All of my roosters this season are non crested so I could pull only crested hens as I know you are not wanting to include crests. Just let me know what you think. I have photos of most of my hens on my profile page.

 

[Bernie56]

I understand completely! Those are the first Swedish Flower photos that I saw as well! Imagine my disappointment when out of my dozen eggs I hatched 7 chicks, 4 roosters (3 red/white and one red/gold), and 3 pullets (2 splash and one red/white). I kept the 3 pullets, a red/white rooster and the red/gold rooster, so I know there was a big splash influence in those first chicks. These two hens are from that group. I hatched over 50 chicks that first season, and got all but one red/white or splash. I had 1 little black and white chick that is the beautiful blue hen in my avatar. I culled the first two original splash hens, and all of the splash chicks, and kept only the hens with the most mottling for my breeding pens. I picked up some dark chicks from a lady in Alabama, and kept some black based roosters from that group. I am getting more color now, but still have a lot of red/white showing up in the chicks. I don't know a lot about chicken genetics so I'm not really sure how to answer your "splash", "mock white" question, just thought that if you are using Swedish roosters a red/white one may work for you. I am still working to bring my flock to the level of mottling of those first two hens as well. I do cull heavily for splash, and red/white, and pull the pullets with the best mottling for my breeding pens. I would be happy to put together a pen for some eggs for your project. I seriously considered joining you several years ago, before I got my original eggs, but didn't feel like I could really do the project justice. Maybe I can contribute in this way. I have a nice red/white rooster (he does have a lot of blue) that I was going to put over some red hens with minimal mottling in hopes of increasing their mottling. Most of the red/white girls are with a large red/gold (black based) rooster. All of my roosters this season are non crested so I could pull only crested hens as I know you are not wanting to include crests. Just let me know what you think. I have photos of most of my hens on my profile page.

I didn't see your previous post before I wrote this. After reading your previous posts I was a little puzzled myself. I have not been keeping any red/white roosters, but I did keep one this past season because he was so different than any others that I had had previously. Most of them start out feathering pure white, or white with black grey flecks, like a true splash. This little guy feathered in blue which then went white. At 3 1/2 months he started coloring up as is normal with the other red/white guys. The thing that is a little confusing from your post is that he DOES have black. Do you think this guys is splash?




I was planning to put him over some red hens which don't have great mottling in hopes of getting more mottling with the red background color. These two girls. They came from an egg swap with a breeder in New York. They have great size, but are severely lacking in mottling for my standards. (they do definitely carry blue)

I can't wait to hatch their eggs now!

 

[alohachickens]

I didn't see your previous post before I wrote this. After reading your previous posts I was a little puzzled myself. I have not been keeping any red/white roosters, but I did keep one this past season because he was so different than any others that I had had previously. Most of them start out feathering pure white, or white with black grey flecks, like a true splash. This little guy feathered in blue which then went white. At 3 1/2 months he started coloring up as is normal with the other red/white guys. The thing that is a little confusing from your post is that he DOES have black. Do you think this guys is splash?




I was planning to put him over some red hens which don't have great mottling in hopes of getting more mottling with the red background color. These two girls. They came from an egg swap with a breeder in New York. They have great size, but are severely lacking in mottling for my standards. (they do definitely carry blue)

I can't wait to hatch their eggs now!

HMMM. It's tough to say. I Google-imaged "Splash" and here are some pics, this Splash Sumatra has a few really really dark tail feathers, but I don't think they are "true" black:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/Splash_Sumatra.jpg

And this Splash Ameraucana hen has a few stray feathers that are very dark blue - but I don't think truly black??? Hard to tell:

http://www.wilkamdai.com/images/chicken_Araucana_SplashPullet.jpg

So, I think it is possible he may be a Splash rooster. Only one way to tell, breed him to hens that have Black tail feathers and no blue, and see if you get any Blue chicks. If he is Splash, all of the chicks will have blue tails. If he is Blue, half the chicks will show Blue, half will show Black tail feathers. If he carries zero Blue genes, then all the chicks will have black tails.

IF all the chicks have black tails - then you truly have something special!!!

Because Blue can make it challenging to see how much white is actually there, I bred it out of my flock for now. The nice thing about Blue is that it's a dominant gene. It doesn't hide, so I am able to add it back to the flock (via a Swedish Flower most likely) whenever I want. But, for now, I prefer to leave it out, so I don't have the confusion of Blue or Splash "faking me out" and making me think I have more-spotty chickens than what I really do have in my flock! LOL. Going to get white spotting the HARD way, and then when I add the "mock white" effect of Splash or pale Blue feathering, these are going to look super-duper spotty!

If you are breeding to increase the amount of mottling on pure Swedish (which would be a great help!) see if you can spy any pure Swedish that have black tails, but still have more white than normal. Oh, and note their ages, the baby Swedish have a lot of white that drops as they mature, and then all mottled chickens gain white as they age. So try to compare apples to apples - look at Swedish roosters and hens at about the same age, like one year old. If you see any hens with black tails and lots of spots, or roosters with black tails and lots of white, and no Blue or Splash genes, please report them here! I'd love to see and maybe try to get their offspring to include in the program, it would be a big help.

 

[Bernie56]

HMMM. It's tough to say. I Google-imaged "Splash" and here are some pics, this Splash Sumatra has a few really really dark tail feathers, but I don't think they are "true" black:

http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/b/bf/Splash_Sumatra.jpg

And this Splash Ameraucana hen has a few stray feathers that are very dark blue - but I don't think truly black??? Hard to tell:

http://www.wilkamdai.com/images/chicken_Araucana_SplashPullet.jpg

So, I think it is possible he may be a Splash rooster. Only one way to tell, breed him to hens that have Black tail feathers and no blue, and see if you get any Blue chicks. If he is Splash, all of the chicks will have blue tails. If he is Blue, half the chicks will show Blue, half will show Black tail feathers. If he carries zero Blue genes, then all the chicks will have black tails.

IF all the chicks have black tails - then you truly have something special!!!

Because Blue can make it challenging to see how much white is actually there, I bred it out of my flock for now. The nice thing about Blue is that it's a dominant gene. It doesn't hide, so I am able to add it back to the flock (via a Swedish Flower most likely) whenever I want. But, for now, I prefer to leave it out, so I don't have the confusion of Blue or Splash "faking me out" and making me think I have more-spotty chickens than what I really do have in my flock! LOL. Going to get white spotting the HARD way, and then when I add the "mock white" effect of Splash or pale Blue feathering, these are going to look super-duper spotty!

If you are breeding to increase the amount of mottling on pure Swedish (which would be a great help!) see if you can spy any pure Swedish that have black tails, but still have more white than normal. Oh, and note their ages, the baby Swedish have a lot of white that drops as they mature, and then all mottled chickens gain white as they age. So try to compare apples to apples - look at Swedish roosters and hens at about the same age, like one year old. If you see any hens with black tails and lots of spots, or roosters with black tails and lots of white, and no Blue or Splash genes, please report them here! I'd love to see and maybe try to get their offspring to include in the program, it would be a big help.

I do have some new hens that are really dark. I have only had these three about a month so haven't hatched any from them yet. I am really excited about these hens as I have had a difficult time getting blacks.

I do have a few dark ones from my flock, but would like to improve the mottling. This pullet looks promising.