The American Cemani Breeders Club...open forum

[Pyxis]

How are Mike and Smithsonian lines considered two different lines?

Mike Bean said he had two different lines, one from the Smithsonian and the other just his line I guess. I have one from the non-Smithsonian line, and she looks very different from my TM and GFF birds. Let me see if I can get some pictures for you. I have all three lines. My TM hens and GFF hens look a lot more gamey than my Mike hen, who looks more like a leghorn in body type. They are also darker and have much smaller combs than she does. I'll see if I can get a picture today to show what I mean. I have no idea if the Smithsonian birds are really darker than the non-Smithsonian line, but that was what Mike was saying.

 

[playrough87]

I guess everyone took this post with a grain of salt? I was, as well as the poster, under the impression that Michael Bean's birds were a marketing scam and had nothing to do with the Smithsonian. As much research as I've done, I can't find anything reputable to confirm or deny.

 

[Hatchery Hive]

Yeah I read that too... and I think that, that guy, had a bone to pick for some reason...
It also seems that, that guy, was banned too.... Soooo...

What can I say about that... except... there you are...

I don't like drama. So that's all I have to say about that..

Talk and mere supposition is cheap,
Taking time to breed selectively and cull hard is were the real action is.
Call me old fashioned, but Results from WORK, not words, is what matter to me.

All I know is that Randy was right.
The lines I have are cleaning up nicely after only 2 generations.
as he said they would... because his did as well.
which is amazing!

Im sure, as I also read here, that all cemani lines need to be developed through hard culling and by also introducing new lines which I am pain-stakenly doing.

My real world results are proving to be enough evidence to convince me...
and I am sure my results will get even better each generation.
Over time, those results should evidence themselves by dropping my cull rate too...
I cant wait to see it!

Just for fun, here is another cell phone shot of my "keeper" 2nd Gen females.
So it can be done...

All that being said...
I find that CJ "tar babies" are probably the most beautiful cemani birds I have seen thus far. Hats off to you guys!

perhaps one day I can work a deal with CJ to get some...
So that I can cross those into my line as well...

 

[Pyxis]

Well, no one wanted to cooperate today so the pictures aren't the best, but you can see the type differences between the two lines. This is the Mike hen, and this is how she normally carries herself:

Here she is next to a TM hen, and you can really see the comb difference:

The color didn't come out well, but she also has mulberry combs and turquoise earlobes. I don't hatch from her, she's just in there because my egg flock won't accept her. In fact I couldn't hatch from her if I wanted to, because despite the fact that she is over a year old she has never laid an egg. I wish she would, because Mike told me his birds with turquoise earlobes lay white eggs, and I want to see if that is true. She's also much flightier than my others.


So there you go, for anyone curious, the Mike line compared to the TM line.

 

[Hatchery Hive]

Thanks Pyxis...

That's interesting...

 

[Pyxis]

Thanks Pyxis...

That's interesting...

No problem I find the differences between the two lines interesting. So far my GFF pullets are looking mostly like the TM birds, but they aren't full grown yet so it will be interesting to see if there are any differences between those lines as well.

 

[playrough87]

Yeah I read that too... and I think that, that guy, had a bone to pick for some reason...
It also seems that, that guy, was banned too.... Soooo...

What can I say about that... except... there you are...

I am not trying to beat a dead horse here... But you can see all of the past exhibitions from the past 20+ years on the Smithsonian website, even searching using keywords.

I'm not saying his birds aren't usable and don't clean up well. I just don't believe that he had 2 separate lines unless he crossed half of his birds,keeping the others pure. I also don't believe in the "Smithsonian" name. After all, I do have 4 birds with Michael Bean lines in them :-D

 

[Double Kindness]

So.. am I to suppose I won't be getting a refund from dc because I haven't heard back from him about svart honas I put a deposit on last fall for shipment this spring as a custom hatch?

It's hard to improve the lines if I can't get stock I researched and paid for.

The gff roo over bean line x gff pullet is throwing out silver laced leakage babies.

Personally, I have been using my bean line rooster over ee and polish and even a production red and am getting excellent black fibro babies, with black vents and skin.

This is difficult work to improve this breed. Freezer camp is this weekend.

 

[cjwaldon]

Talk and mere supposition is cheap,
Taking time to breed selectively and cull hard is were the real action is.
Call me old fashioned, but Results from WORK, not words, is what matter to me.

All I know is that Randy was right.
The lines I have are cleaning up nicely after only 2 generations.
as he said they would... because his did as well.
which is amazing!

Im sure, as I also read here, that all cemani lines need to be developed through hard culling and by also introducing new lines which I am pain-stakenly doing.

My real world results are proving to be enough evidence to convince me...
and I am sure my results will get even better each generation.
Over time, those results should evidence themselves by dropping my cull rate too...
I cant wait to see it!

All that being said...
I find that CJ "tar babies" are probably the most beautiful cemani birds I have seen thus far. Hats off to you guys!

perhaps one day I can work a deal with CJ to get some...
So that I can cross those into my line as well...

Ahhh, thank you HH!

I am amazed at how well my TMA line birds have cleaned up in two generations. Cliff has some really amazing fm Phoenix that make my Cemanis look like garbage, and says five generations got him there. Only five generations!

 

[birdman55]

dc chicken had great birds and new alot of information...and was trying to import his own line...however when you voice your opinion on here you get reprimanded...especially when its a direct comment to someone...just saying..i would respect that guys word...and trust it...you cant say that alot about to many people with these birds or birds in general...he was very honest to the point it got him banned...which is to bad cause he was full of knowledge...i wouldnt have came back to byc either if they kicked me off for saying a statement which was probably true...however you cant prove really anything when it comes to birds..unless there is a pedigree...not very many people have one to prove they are infact a true cemani...that being said...i have bought from some of the importers and i can verify thru paperwork they are true and i know the lineage of the bird...gff has three cemani pens...i can tell you which ones came from which pen...and i do keep track. unless you have imported them yourselfs and have paperwork or have a pedigree with papers to prove where they came from you can only go by your word that they are true cemanis...and to provide a pedigree takes time, documentation, and many pens with alot of notes....and just because you have a receipt saying you bought them from person x, doesnt mean you imported them to your state legally either...keep that in mind when you try and sell your birds.. and good breeders provide paperwork....and every bird i have at the farm has papers to go with it...unless it came from within the state..havnt been on this forum for a while...and there is reason for that...the trusted breeders i can speak to them direct if i have questions or want birds...and to have four or five different lines and try and keep a pedigree for that and hatching 50 to 100 eggs....requires alot of time...and orginization...you need to band each one with reference to the pens, separate them in the hatcher per pen...and so on and so on...most people dont have time for this...every bird here i can tell you what state it came from provide paperwork for the bird...right now i have the entire incubator full...chicken eggs, quail, peacock, and pheasant...and i have 11 different pens of pheasants...to keep up with this is no easy task...and certainly not cheep...thought i would share...