The American Cemani Breeders Club...open forum

[Steadfast]

Mikes birds are the real Indonisian cemani.
Their pedigree is eaisly documented by smithsonian records as genuine Indonesian cemani. That is why his birds appear Asian and not European in structure. Unlike the others imported from Europe. However, mike is an egg geneticist not a breeder. Mike bread his cemanis for egg production and high egg nutrition traits. And he got them. He did NOT cross his original cemani lines with any other chicken breeds. That would be stupid. Because he would never be able to "get back" if there was a genetic mistake. We have our cemani from his original lines.

We want to breed for vanity not for function. So it will take time getting back to jet black.
But have hope, the genes are in there and will come out. Hopefully we will also keep the fast laying high nutritional egg traits as well.

 

[Steadfast]

Also. I vaguely remember mike saying something weird like "two white cemani tend to produce more jet back chicks than other cemani."

Now My memory could be completely wrong about that. But that vague memory is a splinter in my mind about all this.

Do you guys think the black trait may skip a generation? I have no clue.

 

[DCchicken]

Just to clarify, Toni-Marie Astin and GFF's Cemani are also the real Ayam Cemani. And let's not forget that there are also breeders that have paid to import directly from Indonesia in the last year. They all came from Indonesia.

 

[DCchicken]

Also. I vaguely remember mike saying something weird like "two white cemani tend to produce more jet back chicks than other cemani."

Now My memory could be completely wrong about that. But that vague memory is a splinter in my mind about all this.

Do you guys think the black trait may skip a generation? I have no clue.

Are you referring to the clear skin Kedu? If so, then yes you can get Cemani from the Kedu. However you would need to breed a lot of Kedu to produce Cemani chicks. And to my knowledge on one of the lines is capable of still producing Kedu and that will quickly be lost as people breed for jet black.

 

[Steadfast]

Hmmm. Good to know.

So, when I hatch kedu "white cemanis"
I should cull them all. Because contrary to my splintered mind, breeding kedu are NOT a faster path to black.
Right?

 

[DCchicken]

Hmmm. Good to know.

So, when I hatch kedu "white cemanis"
I should cull them all. Because contrary to my splintered mind, breeding kedu are NOT a faster path to black.
Right?

The Kedu are not really "white cemanis". They are clear skinned. Once they mature, the combs, wattles, and face will be a bright red. Remember Cemani is not a separate breed but more of a color of the Ayam Kedu breed. There is also a partridge version of the Kedu which can also be black skinned and is called the Hsian. But I don't think those are ever seen outside of Asia. The reason that the clear skin is disappearing is that it is being breed out in the lines. So most Cemani breeders are going for the perfect black. To do that, you would most likely need to cull all of the Kedu clear skin chicks.

Having said that, I am maintaining and breeding a separate line of the clear skinned Kedu. They look identical to the the Cemani line but of course have the clear skin. They are excellent layers and are very broody. In fact, I have Cemani chicks being raised by a Kedu right now. That Kedu is better than any incubator or brooder out there. I watched a Kedu teach the Cemani chicks how to eat and scratch today.

 

[bluenkimchi]

Thank you all for your kind explanation.

On a side note do you guys know if this pair that I have are the dragon bone/Hsian you guys were mentioning above? These are said to brought over by the Hmong, as snuck in eggs in their luggage, when they first immigrated to the US back in the 1970. These come in a variety of colors, but all of them are straight/single comb, black bone, skin, meat organ birds just like the cemani's are, but just not as dark,more like a grey/charcoal color. There face varies as well, some very red, others gypsy face and everything in between. Do you guys by chance know what breed they might be? Might they be some kind of landrace from SE Asia?

Sorry this is a cemani thread and I went off topic, please forgive me

 

[DCchicken]

All of the images I have ever seen of the Hsian (partridge Kedu) the roo is also brown. So maybe the birds in your photos are some kind of landrace jungle fowl? But the comb is different than that of Bekisar (jungle fowl). So maybe it is a cross?

sorry to all for the sidetrack. Maybe start a new thread and post the pictures?

 

[bluenkimchi]

All of the images I have ever seen of the Hsian (partridge Kedu) the roo is also brown. So maybe the birds in your photos are some kind of landrace jungle fowl? But the comb is different than that of Bekisar (jungle fowl). So maybe it is a cross?

sorry to all for the sidetrack. Maybe start a new thread and post the pictures?

Sorry for side tracking you guys too. I'll ask in the what gender/breed thread about my pair above, thanks again DC for your insight.

 

[Tbanks]

New to the forum .... as a veterinarian and avid owner of some marans and polish ... I was shown the ayam by my kids and thought it was one of the coolest chicken breeds .. I also have an interest as an emerging US breed with helping with development and watching the breed standard develop .... I recently spoke with a gentleman who has Toni's stock ... he did say he occasionally gets mulberry color in his mature roosters from her stock, but recommended breeding for the darkest in future progeny .... IF you guys were starting - where would you pull your initial stock from ?

Thanks ---