The American Cemani Breeders Club...open forum

[bluenkimchi]

They're in quarantine or I would

I see, I never quarantine any birds, in they go with any other chickens I have around the same age as soon as I get them. But I see the need for birds to be quarantine when they are new and the potential risk of the new one carrying some kind of new illness to the rest of the flock

 

[Pyxis]

Yep, I'm careful. I do a lot of other birds here, as you can probably tell from my signature lol. Biosecurity is tight around here.

 

[Steadfast]

I have 6 of his.
All have tan tongues.
Including the roster from the smithsonian line.
But they are all looking great in every way but their tongues!
(Black vents, black skin under the wings, black combs)

I'm just gonna have to hatch like there is no tomarrow and fold any jet black tongued birds I get back into my line.

Over and over again.

 

[bluenkimchi]

I have 6 of his.
All have tan tongues.
Including the roster from the smithsonian line.
But they are all looking great in every way but their tongues!
(Black vents, black skin under the wings, black combs)

I'm just gonna have to hatch like there is no tomarrow and fold any jet black tongued birds I get back into my line.

Over and over again.

Great to know that my only male chick isn't the only one. Thanks for the reassurance.

Yep, I'm careful. I do a lot of other birds here, as you can probably tell from my signature lol. Biosecurity is tight around here.

Yes, I can tell hehe

 

[DCchicken]

I have 6 of his.
All have tan tongues.
Including the roster from the smithsonian line.
But they are all looking great in every way but their tongues!
(Black vents, black skin under the wings, black combs)

I'm just gonna have to hatch like there is no tomarrow and fold any jet black tongued birds I get back into my line.

Over and over again.

That's basically the status of many of the Cemani lines in this country. Very few Cemani chicks will be perfect. It is possible to buy perfect birds, but they will most likely be adult birds and cost way more than any of the prices we have all seen public.

My recommendation is to just do what the rest of us have been doing for the last year: Breed a lot of them and cull hard. Breed only the blackest ones and in a year or so, your flock will consist of mostly all black birds suitable for breeding.

Also pay attention. There is a difference between gray skin and black skin. If you place a black skin Cemani next to a gray skin one, it will be very noticeable. I will try to get a picture to demonstrate the difference.

 

[bluenkimchi]

This might come off as rude and bashing Ms Toni Marie's and her birds, but I assure you it's not(just curiosity). I can't help, but notice the difference in TM's birds and wolfwhyte's(Mike) birds shape and size. Her's are what looks like maybe bantam or medium size standard birds and Mike's birds are more larger in appearances and stance. Her are kinda like larger size old English bantam hens shape(not the male though, only notice this about the females). Mike's birds are more upright and longer legged birds, some what like how the Indonesian birds are. His are like more of a oriental game bird stance and shape. Then there's GFF's cemani, which they imported from Europe, their shape are totally different, looks more loose feathers and have an appearance like a dual purpose bird does.

As, I understand Mike's birds are straight imported from Indonesia, which were originally source from imported eggs by the Smithsonian museum a while back before the bird flu was going around and both TM and GFF are imported from the UK during 2007 and 2012. So maybe TM and GFF has stock that has somewhat been breed to what the UK has accepted and likes? And Mike got his original started flock of birds after the Smithsonian museum was going to get rid of them.

Kind explanation would be greatly appreciated!

I'm new to this breed, so please don't be too harsh in your words

Thanks,
BK

 

[DCchicken]

Of the top of my head (and not looking at my notes, the Toni-Marie Astin line was imported from Switzerland. But don't hold me to that as it really does not matter at this point. Since 2007 they were raised landrace and not to any standard, as none existed. So there are going to be differences from other lines.

But one thing for sure, the hens from this line are incredible layers. I actually prefer the smaller size of the line. But I would not call them bantam. I don't need nor want any more LF dual purpose birds. I have 14 other breeds that fit that need.

There is one important difference with this line. This is the only line, that I am aware of that is capable of producing the clear skin Kedu. Other lines have most likely eliminated this by selective breeding. I have actually separated out the Kedu and will be releasing them as a separate line on their own.

 

[blackbirds13]

Of the top of my head (and not looking at my notes, the Toni-Marie Astin line was imported from Switzerland.  But don't hold me to that as it really does not matter at this point.  Since 2007 they were raised landrace and not to any standard, as none existed.  So there are going to be differences from other lines.

But one thing for sure, the hens from this line are incredible layers.  I actually prefer the smaller size of the line.  But I would not call them bantam.  I don't need nor want any more LF dual purpose birds.  I have 14 other breeds that fit that need.  

There is one important difference with this line.  This is the only line, that I am aware of that is capable of producing the clear skin Kedu. Other lines have most likely eliminated this by selective breeding. I have actually separated out the Kedu and will be releasing them as a separate line on their own. 

What could one expect to get from the Toni-Marie line? Will some be black internally as well as externally? I understand some may be white or with white feathers.

 

[DCchicken]

What could one expect to get from the Toni-Marie line? Will some be black internally as well as externally? I understand some may be white or with white feathers.

By internally I think you mean the mouth since they are already have black or gray skin and bones. But, it depends upon the breeder. There are about 14 breeders right now with the Toni-Marie line. Some have had them for over a year and are culling hard. So they are probably more likely to have black mouths. However, all of the Toni-Marie Astin line are FM birds. Some are gypsy-faced and some are not. It just depends upon how each breeder is breeding their line.

I can say that I just hatched a roo from an egg that I got directly from Toni-Marie and it was exactly what we are all looking for. That roo has jet black skin, under the wing, and a black mouth. So clearly Toni-Marie has been improving the line since I received my first pullet. It's a shame that a faulty incubator killed the rest of the eggs. But at least a nice roo hatched.

If you want the darkest and best, buy adult birds from a reputable breeder and not eggs from eBay. Cemani chicks change a lot from hatch to full grown. They can be born with white feathers that fall out when they get their adult feathers. Or they can develop silver feathers as adults. If you cannot afford the best adult birds, buy what you can but cull heavily and be patient. It may take you several years of breeding, but you can get there to have the best Cemani. However, one thing is for certain: unless the chick is born with a black mouth and black skin, it will not grow into it.

 

[Randy2010]

By internally I think you mean the mouth since they are already have black or gray skin and bones. But, it depends upon the breeder. There are about 14 breeders right now with the Toni-Marie line. Some have had them for over a year and are culling hard. So they are probably more likely to have black mouths. However, all of the Toni-Marie Astin line are FM birds. Some are gypsy-faced and some are not. It just depends upon how each breeder is breeding their line.

I can say that I just hatched a roo from an egg that I got directly from Toni-Marie and it was exactly what we are all looking for. That roo has jet black skin, under the wing, and a black mouth. So clearly Toni-Marie has been improving the line since I received my first pullet. It's a shame that a faulty incubator killed the rest of the eggs. But at least a nice roo hatched.

If you want the darkest and best, buy adult birds from a reputable breeder and not eggs from eBay. Cemani chicks change a lot from hatch to full grown. They can be born with white feathers that fall out when they get their adult feathers. Or they can develop silver feathers as adults. If you cannot afford the best adult birds, buy what you can but cull heavily and be patient. It may take you several years of breeding, but you can get there to have the best Cemani. However, one thing is for certain: unless the chick is born with a black mouth and black skin, it will not grow into it.

Well said. DCchicken "If you want the darkest and best, buy adult birds from a reputable breeder and not eggs from eBay. Cemani chicks change a lot from hatch to full grown. They can be born with white feathers that fall out when they get their adult feathers. Or they can develop silver feathers as adults. If you cannot afford the best adult birds, buy what you can but cull heavily and be patient. It may take you several years of breeding, but you can get there to have the best Cemani. However, one thing is for certain: unless the chick is born with a black mouth and black skin, it will not grow into it."