The "Ask Anything" to Nicalandia Thread

[ChicksnMore]

Gold/Silver Splits
Some examples.
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Ya....they really don't look like any of my birds do they. Yet if those chicks are silver, it has to be in those birds somewhere.
I read this article talking about reds that aren't effected by silver and wondering if that's a factor. But this articles the only place I've seen it mentioned so not sure what to think of it yet.
https://poultrykeeper.com/poultry-breeding/the-other-type-of-gold-red/

The white wings, is due to the heavy mottling. View attachment 3414386

Ya... definitely mottling making white wing feathers. He has red feathers where the above hen has black wing feathers as well though. So duckwing?

 

[ChicksnMore]

Just for the difference. Silver with Autosomal Red.
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Is autosomal red what that one article is calling Ap?

 

[NagemTX]

Golden phoenix is S/s+. Pictures of my two goldens.

One is more red than the other.

 

[NatJ]

Is autosomal red what that one article is calling Ap?

Short answer: yes.

Long answer to tell why:

Phaeomelanin is the red pigment in chickens.
Autosomes are the chromosomes that do not control the sex of the chicken.
Autosomal means a gene that is on one of those chromosomes (not sex-linked.)

Autosomal phaeomelanin is the red pigment that is not on the sex chromosome.
(Vs. gold which is on the Z sex chromsome.)
"Autosomal red" is referring to the same gene, just using red instead of phaeomelanin.

It's common to have a standard abbreviation for genes, usually based on something about the gene's name or action. Some are fairly obvious, like B for barring and Bl for blue. Some are less obvious, like h for "hookless" (silkie feathering) or Ig for "Inhibitor of gold" (dilutes gold to a light color; also called cream.) Ap is the one for "autosomal phaeomelanin."

 

[MysteryChicken]

Is autosomal red what that one article is calling Ap?

Autosomal Red genetic symbol is Ar/Ar, never heard of Ap. So, maybe.

These girls are Silver Duckwing with Autosomal Red.

 

[MysteryChicken]

Ya....they really don't look like any of my birds do they. Yet if those chicks are silver, it has to be in those birds somewhere.
I read this article talking about reds that aren't effected by silver and wondering if that's a factor. But this articles the only place I've seen it mentioned so not sure what to think of it yet.
https://poultrykeeper.com/poultry-breeding/the-other-type-of-gold-red/

Ya... definitely mottling making white wing feathers. He has red feathers where the above hen has black wing feathers as well though. So duckwing?

Best way to know if your birds are Duckwing based is the chick down.

 

[ChicksnMore]

Best way to know if your birds are Duckwing based is the chick down.View attachment 3414481

I get both types of chicks from these birds. Often both type from the same parents. I think the flock carries e+/e+, e+/eb, maybe ER/ER with some carrying CO/co+ and some CO/CO. Plus mottling in all and mahogany in at least some. That's all I think I've figured out so far...I'm learning a little about genetics as I try to learn about these birds and it's all new to me. They're a landrace so a lot of genes playing around in there. These chicks are the first and only in those colors that I've gotten though and the white with red shoulder chick came from the same birds...so definitely mahogany in the dad and at least one of the hens. It was a siblings mating and none of the original birds looked as pale as the roo in question...so guessing one of my original hens carried silver. I can't even begin to guess which yet...though I kind of think it's the all over paler female. There was one hen in the original birds that pale.

I read another article talking about Ap saying mahogany can create a darker red on the top of the head in S/s+ and that other genes can intensify the effect. So I'm guessing that's what I have.

Think I'll try that roo to the palest hen and see if they produce silver.

 

[MysteryChicken]

I get both types of chicks from these birds. Often both type from the same parents. I think the flock carries e+/e+, e+/eb, maybe ER/ER with some carrying CO/co+ and some CO/CO. Plus mottling in all and mahogany in at least some. That's all I think I've figured out so far...I'm learning a little about genetics as I try to learn about these birds and it's all new to me. They're a landrace so a lot of genes playing around in there. These chicks are the first and only in those colors that I've gotten though and the white with red shoulder chick came from the same birds...so definitely mahogany in the dad and at least one of the hens. It was a siblings mating and none of the original birds looked as pale as the roo in question...so guessing one of my original hens carried silver. I can't even begin to guess which yet...though I kind of think it's the all over paler female. There was one hen in the original birds that pale.

I read another article talking about Ap saying mahogany can create a darker red on the top of the head in S/s+ and that other genes can intensify the effect. So I'm guessing that's what I have.

Think I'll try that roo to the palest hen and see if they produce silver.

You can try that, & see what you get.

 

[NatJ]

Autosomal Red genetic symbol is Ar/Ar, never heard of Ap. So, maybe.

I read this article talking about reds that aren't effected by silver and wondering if that's a factor. But this articles the only place I've seen it mentioned so not sure what to think of it yet.
https://poultrykeeper.com/poultry-breeding/the-other-type-of-gold-red/

That article by Grant Brereton says, "It was Brian Reeder of the U.S. who observed that not only was the ‘non-sex-linked’ Gold (Red – which he named ‘Ap’) in breeds such as the aforementioned, but that its was present in many other varieties."

Here is an article by Brian Reeder about the subject:
http://brianreederbreeder.blogspot.com/2014/01/the-expression-suppression-and.html
I notice in this article he's calling it "Aph" rather than "Ap," so either he changed what he's calling it, or the author of the other article got it wrong.

@MysteryChicken yes, I'm sure it's pretty much the same thing as what you are showing photos of. But Brian Reeder's article tries to distinguish "autosomal red" (visual appearance) from Aph (gene that is partly responsible.)
I see the chicken calculator uses the symbol Ar. Is that where you got it from?

I wish there was some standardization of what symbol "really" goes with each gene, to avoid confusion!

 

[HappyHippyChick]

Is there a way to sex brown leghorn chicks? I know there is a way to sex OEG bantams by their eye markings, I think. But I forgot because it's been a long time since I had chickens.